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Old 03-25-2007, 01:17 PM   #46
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Originally posted by AEON


I think we need more positive movies in general - so this is sort of inline with my thinking already.

However, I don't celebrate when there is a "good" black guy on screen - I simply don't care. A hero is a hero. A good story is a good story.

As a whole, Western Civilization in constantly under attack in our society. My children will learn not to be ashamed of their heritage, as well as learn not to repeat some of the same mistakes. This will happen despite the movies, TV, and "white guilt" professors. They will also learn that every human is created equal - an idea that is currently the foundation of Western Civilization.
You still aren't getting it. Empathy isn't one of your strong points is it?
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Old 03-25-2007, 01:18 PM   #47
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And you're happy with that?
Why the hell wouldn't you be?
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:22 PM   #48
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Originally posted by AEON

As a whole, Western Civilization in constantly under attack in our society.
You have some kind of weird hang up about this.
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:43 PM   #49
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Empathy isn't one of your strong points is it?
I imagine that it would be quite the liability in the military-industrial complex.
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:44 PM   #50
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Originally posted by AEON

As a whole, Western Civilization in constantly under attack in our society. My children will learn not to be ashamed of their heritage, as well as learn not to repeat some of the same mistakes. This will happen despite the movies, TV, and "white guilt" professors. They will also learn that every human is created equal - an idea that is currently the foundation of Western Civilization.
I didn't realise that only white people are considered western.

I also suspect you would have a very different opinion of the race of characters on tv and in movies if you were a race other than caucasian. I also think you would be very uncomfortable if you and your children saw very few causasian actors in tv and in movies, and if most of the ones you did seee were in token or bad guy roles. As it is (and based on your posts), I don't think you have developed the ability to see (or at least try to see) beyond your own skin.
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:46 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I think we need more positive movies in general - so this is sort of inline with my thinking already.

However, I don't celebrate when there is a "good" black guy on screen - I simply don't care.
Well, how very nice for you. You know I hear this type of sentiment all the time and it's just bull. It's a sentiment that says maybe if I just pretend racism doesn't exist it will go away--and the last thing I need some militant minorities reminding me that it hasnt' gone away. It's a sentiment that says if it's not important to me it shouldn't be important to anyone. You may think your so-called color blindness is contributing to a more equitable society, but I've got news for you. It's not. If you really want to see a society where race doesn't matter, you've got to first recognize where it still does. And I'm telling you: Seeing a "good" black guy on screen is still the exception rather than the rule. And that's not right.

And in the quote below you make it crystal clear that you CAN imagine what it means to see "your" culture not represented (though never mind that it's already been pointed out that Western culture hardly equals white):

Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

As a whole, Western Civilization in constantly under attack in our society. My children will learn not to be ashamed of their heritage,
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:50 AM   #52
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Watch MTV recently?
MTV is part of the fucking problem, not the solution.

How many of those black men and women would you consider role models for your children?

A lot ( but not all of course) of what's happening in black pop culture (which is eagerly being consumed and aped by white as well as black youth) is absolutely cancerous to black America.
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:54 AM   #53
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I generally think that multi-cultural societies are, almost by definition, failed societies.

The United States is probably the only example of a reasonably successful multicultural society in the world today.
Hmmm. I just got back from Singapore, a nation with four major ethnic groups--though Chinese is by far the largest--and four official languages. As one of the safest, cleanest, and most prosperous countries on the planet, they seem to be doing fine.

Yeah, they're really a "failed society."
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:00 AM   #54
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Y'all don't know what it's like, being male, middle-class and white.

. . .I'm rockin' the suburbs

Thanks for the smile. This is a topic where it's hard for me to stay my even-keeled, rationale self.

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Old 03-27-2007, 08:06 AM   #55
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Originally posted by financeguy
I generally think that multi-cultural societies are, almost by definition, failed societies.

And you know what elses pisses me off about this bullshit idea? What it says about those of us who come from multicultural backgrounds? Are we "failures" as well? Will my children have no place in the world because "multi-cultural societies are almost be defintion failed societies?"

Let's look at a the multi-cultural society on the micro level. On my mom's side (the family I grew up with), my grandmother is Chinese, my grandfather half-black, half-white. Every single one of their four children married people of different ethnic backgrounds--when my family gets together every summer there are Asian, black, white, and Lebanese people who are related by blood.

I don't consider my family a failure by a long stretch.

But where would they fit into your version of a "successful society?"
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:11 AM   #56
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Originally posted by maycocksean
But where would they fit into your version of a "successful society?"
Sean, your family's mere existence is part of the "attack on Western civilization". Especially if you get all uppity and start asking to be represented in the mass media of the society in which you belong and contribute to.

You know, what bothers me most about this kind of language is that it is eerily similar to the code words used by white supremacists. "western civilization" is just a PC way to indicate we're talking about white folk.
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:52 PM   #57
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You know, what bothers me most about this kind of language is that it is eerily similar to the code words used by white supremacists. "western civilization" is just a PC way to indicate we're talking about white folk.
Yep.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:17 PM   #58
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"western civilization" is just a PC way to indicate we're talking about white folk.
That, of coarse, is just patently absurd.

Are the curators of the Smithsonian Institute just being PC with their Origins Of Western Culture exhibit?

When "sane" people use the phrase "Western civilization" they are referring to a set of common:
Military alliances
Philosophies
Forms of worship
Forms of democratic government
Forms of free-market economies
Forms of law
Language
Art
Literature
Architecture
Industry
Medicine
To name a few.

While maybe traditionally thought of as being European derived, today's West has both; successfully assimilated immigrants from non-Western countries, and, grown to include whole cultures as diverse as Japan, Israel, and much of Latin America.

If you think "Western Civilization" is "code" and not something worth intellectually defending...you either live in Manhattan or Hollywood...or you need to travel more.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:33 PM   #59
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Originally posted by financeguy
I generally think that multi-cultural societies are, almost by definition, failed societies.
May I ask for examples of these "failed multicultural societies"? I'd be interested in this before I try to formulate a response.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:35 PM   #60
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That, of coarse, is just patently absurd.
Not if taken in the context of the post she was referring to. Go back and read Aeon's original post in which he suggested that being glad there is a black princess over at Disney is tantamount to an attack on western civilization and his children's heritage. I don't think Sula (and I know I don't) meant to suggest that "Western civ" IS code for "white" just that Aeon was using the term in that way.

I think you're description below is pretty accurate, and I would also agree that is the definition used by "sane" people, but that's not what Aeon was implying.

Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

When "sane" people use the phrase "Western civilization" they are referring to a set of common:
Military alliances
Philosophies
Forms of worship
Forms of democratic government
Forms of free-market economies
Forms of law
Language
Art
Literature
Architecture
Industry
Medicine
To name a few.

While maybe traditionally thought of as being European derived, today's West has both; successfully assimilated immigrants from non-Western countries, and, grown to include whole cultures as diverse as Japan, Israel, and much of Latin America.
I wouldn't go so far is to say that Japan now reflects "western" culture. It's still pretty darn eastern as far as I can tell. And I was there just last week. Unless of course you are equating "western culture" with technological advancement and economic prosperity.

I'd also add that Western culture hardly needs "defending." It's hardly under threat of annihliation. If anything it is more powerful, influential, and pervasive than ever. Which I'm not saying is a bad--or good--thing. It just is.
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