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Old 03-24-2007, 06:45 PM   #31
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I don't either; no one suggested it's a conspiracy, or that there's some man sitting in a room somewhere at Disney cackling evilly and rubbing his hands together at the thought of all the kids he's going to make feel bad about themselves. And I can understand cynicism about the fact that businesses will capitalize on who they think their audiences are and what they want to see; I agree with that. But honestly, as much as you've said before about all the negative impact media can have on people, I'm a bit puzzled why you find this one so hard to imagine. If little girls notice that many female characters on TV appear to be half-dressed and behaving in a highly sexualized manner, and you feel that has some influence, then why would little nonwhite girls not notice that the beloved heroines in Disney films tend to be white, and why would that not have some influence too? You don't seem to expect kids to be blind to gender representations in media and appear to have some opinions about that, so why so dismissive of the idea that a pattern of racial representations could have influences as well--both good and bad?
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Old 03-24-2007, 07:00 PM   #32
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Originally posted by redhotswami


and when growing up, all we see in the media is a bunch of white people, when we live in communities that are more diverse, then that definitely has an effect.



From 2004

http://www.usatoday.com/life/televis...ority-tv_x.htm

From 2004

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news...id.asp?id=9914

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Within the United States, even children perceive these images as negative stereotypes. In a 1998 study conducted on behalf of Children Now, a nonprofit children's advocacy group, interviewers asked twelve hundred American children how often and in what roles do they see their race depicted on television. The results were revealing. Children more often associate positive qualities such as financial and academic success, leadership, and intelligence with White characters, and negative qualities such as lawbreaking, financial hardship, laziness, and goofy behavior with minority characters.

When children were asked about positive qualities, 58% of the children said that they see Whites on television as having a lot of money. Only 8% perceived minority characters as having a lot of money. As for negative qualities, 6% reported seeing White characters breaking the law or the rules compared with 47% of minority characters.

When asked how often they see their race on television, 71% of White children said they see their race depicted very often, compared to only 42% of African- Americans and 22% of Hispanic-Americans. As for who plays the boss, 71% of all children said someone who is White usually plays the role of boss, while 59% said Blacks typically play the criminal. "'You always see black people doing drugs and carrying around drugs, shooting people and stealing things,' one white girl said." Thus, after six decades of African-Americans on television, even children do not perceive this group as being presented in a positive light.

Children Now conducted another study, called Fall Colors: How Diverse is the 1999-2000 TV Season's Prime Time Line-Up? after the controversy in the fall of 1999 over the lack of minority characters on network television. This study analyzed the level of cast diversity on ninety-two prime-time network drama and comedy shows, and was "commissioned in part to provide networks with information regarding a quantification of their usage of minorities in prime-time casts." The findings indicated that the vast majority of characters on network series were White, and while there was a "visible African American presence" on these shows, other racial and ethnic minorities were underrepresented.

Furthermore, of the minority characters portrayed on these shows, very few were main cast members. According to Lois Salisbury, president of Children Now, "Any way you carve it, the more central a character is to a program, the more likely he or she is white." Thus, while the networks seem to have attempted to include some African-Americans, they have not gone far enough. As Salisbury stated, "Children in America tell us that being included in TV is a major signal of acceptance, respect and recognition. The absence of cultural images and characters that reflect them, conversely, is disturbing to kids. It affects their aspirations." . .
--From http://academic.udayton.edu/race/04needs/media02.htm

And here is evidence of some progress for asian actors on television. When I was a kid or even ten years ago, most asians portrayed delivery boys or peasants or it was that dude with the long mustache who kept getting beat up in Die Hard, Lethal Weapon and the A-team......this dude whose name is Al Leong.


http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=60746

And more good news from a couple of seasons ago. I forgot to mention Survivor as finally realizing that diversity is important after years of having a token black person with the odd hispanic or asian person on the show.

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles...ity/?page=full

Boy, looks like tough times ahead for white actors.
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:01 PM   #33
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Y'all don't know what it's like, being male, middle-class and white.

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Old 03-24-2007, 08:02 PM   #34
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Y'all don't know what it's like, being male, middle-class and white.

actually i was thinking of this song when i visited this thread the first time.
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:12 PM   #35
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Y'all don't know what it's like, being male, middle-class and white.



Gawd, I would be so boring if I was.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:05 PM   #36
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Originally posted by yolland
I don't either; no one suggested it's a conspiracy, or that there's some man sitting in a room somewhere at Disney cackling evilly and rubbing his hands together at the thought of all the kids he's going to make feel bad about themselves. And I can understand cynicism about the fact that businesses will capitalize on who they think their audiences are and what they want to see; I agree with that. But honestly, as much as you've said before about all the negative impact media can have on people, I'm a bit puzzled why you find this one so hard to imagine. If little girls notice that many female characters on TV appear to be half-dressed and behaving in a highly sexualized manner, and you feel that has some influence, then why would little nonwhite girls not notice that the beloved heroines in Disney films tend to be white, and why would that not have some influence too? You don't seem to expect kids to be blind to gender representations in media and appear to have some opinions about that, so why so dismissive of the idea that a pattern of racial representations could have influences as well--both good and bad?
I don't equate behavior with race. I don't take my kids to "highly sexualized" movies. But I would take them to kid friendly story with a black princess.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:35 PM   #37
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but ultimately we undergo a process, and when growing up, all we see in the media is a bunch of white people, .

Watch MTV recently?
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:38 PM   #38
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I generally think that multi-cultural societies are, almost by definition, failed societies.

The United States is probably the only example of a reasonably successful multicultural society in the world today.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:39 PM   #39
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The United States is probably the only example of a reasonably successful multicultural society in the world today.
Look north.

It is a VERY different vibe in Canada. Our multiculturalism is a source of pride.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:40 PM   #40
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It is a VERY different vibe in Canada. Our multiculturalism is a source of pride.
And you're happy with that?
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:10 AM   #41
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Old 03-25-2007, 01:50 AM   #42
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Watch MTV recently?
by saying "we" i was including myself, which meant that i was referring to my childhood and what I experienced. "recently" would include the current MTV and the new Disney Black Princess. So I'm not sure what you're getting at with this post.
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Old 03-25-2007, 07:12 AM   #43
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Originally posted by AEON


I don't equate behavior with race. I don't take my kids to "highly sexualized" movies. But I would take them to kid friendly story with a black princess.
Quote:
interviewers asked twelve hundred American children how often and in what roles do they see their race depicted on television. The results were revealing. Children more often associate positive qualities such as financial and academic success, leadership, and intelligence with White characters, and negative qualities such as lawbreaking, financial hardship, laziness, and goofy behavior with minority characters.

When children were asked about positive qualities, 58% of the children said that they see Whites on television as having a lot of money. Only 8% perceived minority characters as having a lot of money. As for negative qualities, 6% reported seeing White characters breaking the law or the rules compared with 47% of minority characters.

When asked how often they see their race on television, 71% of White children said they see their race depicted very often, compared to only 42% of African- Americans and 22% of Hispanic-Americans. As for who plays the boss, 71% of all children said someone who is White usually plays the role of boss, while 59% said Blacks typically play the criminal. "'You always see black people doing drugs and carrying around drugs, shooting people and stealing things,' one white girl said." Thus, after six decades of African-Americans on television, even children do not perceive this group as being presented in a positive light.
Is there anything in this world that could make it clear that you simply are not getting what this really is about?

It's not about you, nor your children, but about the whole society. And overall it's lacking this distinction you make, and your children might have learned to make.
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Old 03-25-2007, 09:24 AM   #44
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Is there anything in this world that could make it clear that you simply are not getting what this really is about?

It's not about you, nor your children, but about the whole society. And overall it's lacking this distinction you make, and your children might have learned to make.
I think we need more positive movies in general - so this is sort of inline with my thinking already.

However, I don't celebrate when there is a "good" black guy on screen - I simply don't care. A hero is a hero. A good story is a good story.

As a whole, Western Civilization in constantly under attack in our society. My children will learn not to be ashamed of their heritage, as well as learn not to repeat some of the same mistakes. This will happen despite the movies, TV, and "white guilt" professors. They will also learn that every human is created equal - an idea that is currently the foundation of Western Civilization.
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:11 AM   #45
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I think we need more positive movies in general - so this is sort of inline with my thinking already.

However, I don't celebrate when there is a "good" black guy on screen - I simply don't care. A hero is a hero. A good story is a good story.

As a whole, Western Civilization in constantly under attack in our society. My children will learn not to be ashamed of their heritage, as well as learn not to repeat some of the same mistakes. This will happen despite the movies, TV, and "white guilt" professors. They will also learn that every human is created equal - an idea that is currently the foundation of Western Civilization.
Western Civilization is constantly under attack, by whom? Redhotswami and myself are part of Western Civilization, the 30-35% of the population in North America who are minorities are part of Western Civilization.

And this issue isn't about how a white person feels watching entertainment as involves more than just film and television. Good for you that you say you don't care about the ethnicity of the main character of the film. But the people who are being affected by the misrepresentation do feel the social, emotional and psychological effects of this. Many institutions have already dealt with the issue of race like professional sports, the workplace, and even the modelling world. The NFL was pretty much shamed into hiring black coaches a few years back. I'm certain most people had no idea that the hiring of black coaches was an issue but black coaches certainly did.

"White guilt"? This isn't about white guilt, it's about equality and fair representation. It's not about positive films, it's about showing the world, not just America, as it really is. It took decades before the appearance of an openly gay main character on tv, huge step forward. I think we should see more people with disabilities and less perfect people in the media. Dove Canada has received great acclaim for a series of beauty ads using real women who aren't model thin or 17 yr olds.

And all people aren't created equal. It's a nice concept but where you are born determines the life you will have. Watch the Miniature Earth again to see the how equal everyone is. Some numbers have probably changed a little like people connected to the internet but the gist of it is obvious. A child born in a refugee camp in Darfur is not equal to a child born in San Diego.

Like Vincent suggested this isn't about you, it's about the big picture. No one is asking anyone to be ashamed of their heritage. I don't see how the issues relate. This is not a threat to "white" culture. The make up of the population should be reflected in representations of society and it is slowly happening.
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