Did you know that governing according to our Constitution will lead to an attack? - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-15-2008, 11:06 AM   #1
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Did you know that governing according to our Constitution will lead to an attack?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080215/...t_surveillance

I wish remember who said this, but it's true: A Constitutional issue in the Bush administration is when someone actually reads the Constitution.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:45 PM   #2
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2/14/2008 Countdown with Keith Olbermann
(cliff notes version)
Quote:
Now, as promised, a "Special Comment."
It is bad enough, sir, that you were demanding an ex post facto law which could still clear the AT&Ts and the Verizons from responsibility for their systematic, aggressive and blatant collaboration with your illegal and unjustified spying on Americans under this flimsy guise of looking for any terrorists who might be stupid enough to make a collect call or send a mass e-mail. But when you demanded it again during the State of the Union address, you wouldn't even confirm that they'd actually done anything for which they deserved to be cleared. "The Congress must pass liability protection for companies believed to have assisted in the efforts to defend America."

Believed? Don't you know? Don't you even have the guts Dick Cheney showed in admitting they did collaborate with you? Does this endless presidency of loopholes and even fine print extend here, too? If you believe in the seamless mutuality of government and big business, come out and say it! There is a dictionary definition, one word that describes that toxic blend.

You're a fascist! Get them to print you a T-shirt with fascist on it!"
Reductio ad fascismo. Olbermann never fails to deliver the laughs.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:55 PM   #3
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A government spying on it's citizens is funny to you?
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
A government spying on it's citizens is funny to you?
It's what the Communists did, and is there anything funnier than that?
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:07 PM   #5
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"American citizens must understand, clearly understand that there's still a threat on the homeland. There's still an enemy which would like to do us harm, we've got to give our professionals the tools they need, to be able to figure out what the enemy is up to so we can stop it."

~George Bush



"Those willing to give up liberty for the sake of security, deserve neither."

~Benjamin Franklin
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:23 PM   #6
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Ugh, Keith Olbermann is supremely irritating.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
"American citizens must understand, clearly understand that there's still a threat on the homeland. There's still an enemy which would like to do us harm, we've got to give our professionals the tools they need, to be able to figure out what the enemy is up to so we can stop it."

~George Bush



"Those willing to give up liberty for the sake of security, deserve neither."

~Benjamin Franklin
George Bush is speaking the truth - there IS still a threat to the United States and the terrorists are just waiting for the chance to pounce again. If the current laws are loosened and security forces aren't given the means to deal with that threat then the U.S. will again find itself open to attack (G-d forbid).

The United States was caught with its pants down on Sept.11th and George Bush is determined NOT to let that happen again.

As for Benjamin Franklin.............
He was a wise man, a patriot and a great inventor but he wouldn't last too long in today's world with that way of thinking.

Personally, I would rather have my mail read, my phone tapped and my computer bugged if by that I would help in the effort to keep my country more secure against its enemies. After all, I've got nothing to hide so why should I mind?
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


As for Benjamin Franklin.............
He was a wise man, a patriot and a great inventor but he wouldn't last too long in today's world with that way of thinking.

Personally, I would rather have my mail read, my phone tapped and my computer bugged if by that I would help in the effort to keep my country more secure against its enemies. After all, I've got nothing to hide so why should I mind?
That's quite depressing. I have nothing to hide either, but if we throw all of that out the window what will be left of our country that's even worth keeping safe and secure?
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


Personally, I would rather have my mail read, my phone tapped and my computer bugged if by that I would help in the effort to keep my country more secure against its enemies. After all, I've got nothing to hide so why should I mind?
Tell that to the mother who just lost her child due to being held by security. They had nothing to hide either.

The terrorists have won if they have forced us to give up our rights.
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




The terrorists have won if they have forced us to give up our rights.
How have your rights been given up? How, specifically, have YOUR civil liberties been violated?
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:13 AM   #11
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How have your rights been given up? How, specifically, have YOUR civil liberties been violated?
First of all I wouldn't know yet, they don't tell you beforehand if they are listening to your phone calls or reading your emails. That would kind of ruin the point wouldn't it?

We all give up our rights if we say it's ok to wiretap anyone they like. What is stopping them from wiretapping Democratic campaign machines?
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

After all, I've got nothing to hide so why should I mind?


in order to justify these breaches of the Constitution, they've got to find something on someone so that they can point to what they did and say, "see, it's working."

so what happens, then, is you do something a little suspicious. say you went to a fundraiser at a mosque. and let's say you have a couple of conversations that were recorded. someone might think something's up. so they come talk to you. you have nothing to hide. but they need to get something, don't they? there must be something there. so let's take you down to the station. they don't need a warrant, or probable cause, or even to tell anyone. you can now be disappeared, if George Bush wishes. and now, down at the station, they're still not finding anything. but you went to a fundraiser at a mosque! so there must be something you know ... let's try not letting you sleep for days. maybe then you'll remember something. or maybe we could reduce the temperature of the room. or, i know, let's waterboard you. you'll think you're going to die, so you cough up whatever it is they want to hear, regardless of the truth. you just want them to stop. so you told them not what they needed to know, but what they wanted to know in order to justify not just tapping your phone and detaining you, but also the "enhanced interrogation techniques" that they administered to get information that has now justified every single step that proceeded it.

of course, it's not true. you just went to a mosque fundraiser. but maybe your picture will be in the paper. maybe it will say that wiretapping and waterboarding led to the arrest of a terrorist financier. we'll never really know, but the administration now has "proof" that this stuff works.

and it does work. just look at the USSR, GDR, Myanmar, Cambodia ...
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


First of all I wouldn't know yet, they don't tell you beforehand if they are listening to your phone calls or reading your emails. That would kind of ruin the point wouldn't it?

We all give up our rights if we say it's ok to wiretap anyone they like. What is stopping them from wiretapping Democratic campaign machines?
Exactly. It's not about "me" or "you" or "some random man in Chicago". It's about the common good. Hundreds, possibly thousands of our fellow citizens have had their civil liberties and rights, given to them by the Constitution, violated by the Patriot Act. As you said, if one person's rights are taken away, all of our rights are taken away. This is in direct violation of Constitutional provisions according to the rulings of some federal courts. If one studies the history of the Patriot Act, it's clear that it was nothing but fear-mongering on the Bush administration's part. It was passed within two weeks of September 11th, and Congress was only given a week to approve it and was not allowed to ask for or make any changes. That in itself is suspect. The system of checks and balances is not being put into practice here by forbidding the legislative branch the power to even ask for any changes. It inadvertently caused a violation of Constitutional law before it was even signed into law. This is no different than McCarthyism and the government's violation of rights through wire tapping and other invasions of privacy. Many Americans had their careers and lives destroyed because of it. Yet, we're willing to let it happen again? I found an article that lays out the original provisions of the Patriot Act and ways to amend them. It's worth taking a look at.
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


How have your rights been given up? How, specifically, have YOUR civil liberties been violated?
Do you have AT&T, Verizon, or BellSouth? If so, consider yourself vi.o.la.ted!
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

Personally, I would rather have my mail read, my phone tapped and my computer bugged if by that I would help in the effort to keep my country more secure against its enemies. After all, I've got nothing to hide so why should I mind?
Great tactic! Let's flood the intelligence with so much useless information about our private life, that they will overlook a real threat simply because due to time constraints they cannot read that specific mail in time. And filters help nothing, because in every second conversaton you utter a term that activates such a filter.

The only one happy, besides the real terrorist who wasn't that stupid as to blankly talk about his plans or his convictions, is the companies providing all the technical equipment and hard drive space to store all the everyday conversations.

You have given up all your privacy, stripped before your state, but nothing at all has been made safer.

And exploitation of powers a government or its agencies have is totally foreign to western nations, anyway.
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