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Old 09-28-2002, 08:56 PM   #1
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Did Oliver Stone & Oswald do a 2 man show?

The Lee Harvey post got me to thinking about the JFK movie, specifically, (and Ollie Stone generally), as some of you wrote your sentiments about it being a good movie. Not withstanding the psuedo-docu, clever opening using the Zapruder tape, I remember leaving the theatre thinking what a crock a crap! The whole thing fell apart for me with the "fictional" Sutherland character's monologue tying the M.I.C, commies, mafia, & LBJ together as part of the whole conspiracy, the only thing missing was the menacing black helicopter coming to take him away.(Come to think it weren't there heli sfx in that scene?)

For me, most of Stone's movies are vastly overrated. I hear he is doing a movie about Palestine next. What are the odds that it will be a balanced representation?

Waiting to be enlightened...

A mind's like a parachute....
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Old 09-28-2002, 09:18 PM   #2
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Dunno about Mr Stone.
I like some of his work.

Wall street I loved..
Michael Douglas was brillant

Other movies of his I feel manipulated or that he has an agenda.

A crafty artist though..

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Old 09-28-2002, 11:44 PM   #3
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a few points about JFK the film ( Oliver Stone is a man for Basic Instinct , and i don't know if in REP-Diamond Phoenix , they show this stuff )

FREEDOM
DEMOCRACY
LOVE
Justice ..and brilliant act by Kevin Costner - his best role so far .


i read a lot about this case , a lot of black holes , but Garrison version is still the most realistic to me .
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Old 09-29-2002, 12:33 AM   #4
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REP-Diamond Phoenix???


que?
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Old 09-29-2002, 01:45 AM   #5
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Re: Did Oliver Stone & Oswald do a 2 man show?

Quote:
Originally posted by us3
The Lee Harvey post got me to thinking about the JFK movie, specifically, (and Ollie Stone generally), as some of you wrote your sentiments about it being a good movie. Not withstanding the psuedo-docu, clever opening using the Zapruder tape, I remember leaving the theatre thinking what a crock a crap! The whole thing fell apart for me with the "fictional" Sutherland character's monologue tying the M.I.C, commies, mafia, & LBJ together as part of the whole conspiracy, the only thing missing was the menacing black helicopter coming to take him away.(Come to think it weren't there heli sfx in that scene?)

Waiting to be enlightened...

A mind's like a parachute....

That "fictional character" is Colonel Fletcher Prouty.
Col. L. Fletcher Prouty
Jan 24th 1917 - June 5th 2001


The Col. L Fletcher Prouty Reference Site is a focal point where researchers can locate and retrieve articles, books, videos, and tapes on a variety of subjects which Fletcher has written and participated in.

Col. Prouty spent 9 of his 23 year military career in the Pentagon (1955-1964): 2 years with the Secretary of Defense, 2 years with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and 5 years with Headquarters, U.S. Air Force. In 1955 he was appointed the first "Focal Point" officer between the CIA and the Air Force for Clandestine Operations per National Security Council Directive 5412. He was Briefing Officer for the Secretary of Defense (1960-1961), and for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
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Old 09-29-2002, 01:55 AM   #6
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wink

Quote:
Originally posted by us3
REP-Diamond Phoenix???


que?
I think Mr pink was attempting to say-
"Mr Republican Diamond in Phx..
i think Phx is in the dark ages..(lol)..-something to that effect.

Mr Pink is ok..
He means well..

DB9
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Old 09-29-2002, 02:09 AM   #7
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Re: Did Oliver Stone & Oswald do a 2 man show?

Quote:
Originally posted by us3
whole thing fell apart for me with the "fictional" Sutherland character's monologue tying the M.I.C, commies, mafia, & LBJ together as part of the whole conspiracy, the only thing missing was the menacing black helicopter coming to take him away.(Come to think it weren't there heli sfx in that scene?)

For me, most of Stone's movies are vastly overrated. I hear he is doing a movie about Palestine next. What are the odds that it will be a balanced representation?

Waiting to be enlightened...

A mind's like a parachute....
More on Fletcher Prouty:

Prouty, a retired colonel of the U.S. Air Force jet pilot and former professor of air science anti tactics at Yale University, was Chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Kennedy years. He spent nine years in charge of the global system providing military support for the clandestine activities of the Central Intelligence Agency: Black Ops, assassinations, coups d'etat, election riggings, propaganda and psych-warfare.

As a high-ranking military operative, Prouty was often the briefing officer for the chiefs in matters involving the CIA. By fall 1963, Prouty knew as much as anyone about the inner workings of the world of Special Operations. In fact, the character of "X" played by Donald Sutherland in Oliver Stone's "JFK" was based on Prouty.
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Old 09-29-2002, 02:40 AM   #8
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thx for the info, Dreadsox.

So X is "based" on a real person.

How much do u think he said is true?
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Old 09-29-2002, 02:49 AM   #9
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The Problem

Quote:
Originally posted by us3
thx for the info, Dreadsox.

So X is "based" on a real person.

How much do u think he said is true?
The problem I have with the movie is Stone did his homework and interviewed and worked with many people in the business of researching the Assasination of JFK. He chose to do his movie on the Jim Garrison version, and included information from other researchers. Prouty, was probably one of the more credible experts in the field. That is why Stone created Mr. X. Now, I wish I could find the article.....but I believe I read somewhere that at the time Garrison was prosecuting Clay Shaw he had never met Fletcher Prouty. They did begin communicating with each other later in life, sharing information on the Kennedy Assasination..

Prouty passed away last year.
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Old 09-29-2002, 07:42 PM   #10
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I think JFK is one of Oliver Stone's best films, and that includes Platoon, Born on the 4th of July, Natural Born Killers, Any Given Sunday, Wall Street, U-Turn, and Nixon.

The facts of JFK are suspect when considering the truth of what REALLY happened to Jim Garrison. That doesn't mean the information should be disregarded because it was cut and pasted into a dramatic piece of screenplay. It would be a valid argument to question the accuracy of the film's plot, but questioning the information itself is a different story.

P.S. Thanks for posting the information on Fletcher Prouty, Deadsox
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Old 09-29-2002, 07:43 PM   #11
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My pleaseure.

Prouty was quite a man.

Peace to all.
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Old 09-29-2002, 10:14 PM   #12
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Re: The Problem

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


.....but I believe I read somewhere that at the time Garrison was prosecuting Clay Shaw he had never met Fletcher Prouty. They did begin communicating with each other later in life, sharing information on the Kennedy Assasination..

Prouty passed away last year.

Clay Shaw is a U. S. Congressman (R) from south Florida.


Garrison lost the court case to Shaw. Did the courts in Florida get it right?


http://www.jfk-online.com/chron.html

^ link to trial transcripts.
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Old 09-30-2002, 07:06 AM   #13
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Re: Re: The Problem

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Originally posted by deep



Clay Shaw is a U. S. Congressman (R) from south Florida.


Garrison lost the court case to Shaw. Did the courts in Florida get it right?
Deep, thanks for the link. Clay Shaw was prosecuted in New Orleans not in FL. Jim Garrison was the DA in New Orleans.

Also FYI the Clay Shaw who was prosecutedin New Orleans is dead. The Congressman is E. CLay Shaw. I would hate to see the poor guy associated iwth this.


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Old 09-30-2002, 03:57 PM   #14
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Re: Re: Re: The Problem

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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Deep, thanks for the link. Clay Shaw was prosecuted in New Orleans not in FL. Jim Garrison was the DA in New Orleans.
The Congressman is E. CLay Shaw. I would hate to see the poor guy associated iwth this.

Thanks for the correction.
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