Demonic Possession, is it real or group hysteria? - Page 24 - U2 Feedback

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View Poll Results: Is Demonic Possession real or group hysteria?
Absolutely real 10 18.87%
Probably real 2 3.77%
It's real, but you have to invite evil influences into your life 8 15.09%
No, not real; anyone claiming this is a mental case. 28 52.83%
There is a good force and a bad force in our universe-a person has to decide which force they choose to serve 2 3.77%
diamondbruno#9, do you have your own church and gospel? 3 5.66%
diamond you always make the best threads; cutting edge, pushing the intellectual and religious envelope; Bravo 6 11.32%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:39 AM   #346
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

I wasn't referring to that particular anecdote. If you read my previous posts you know my view on NDE's is the same as yours.
I know , the point I was making was that even if somebody thinks that an NDE is a peek into an afterlife the materialist explanation fits better.
Quote:
For me at least, science is not the sole way in which I approximate how things are or the nature of reality. There are aspects of my existence that are beyond the scope of science.
Here is where there is probably some difference in outlook, while there are aspect to experience which are not readily explainable (as in they are too complex) such as art, aesthetic and feeling they are in principle the product of a material reality. Even though we all grossly simplify models for them; for instance how what we think makes us feel, decision making and relating it as free will and describing feelings. These are products of a material mind interacting with a material universe.

Just because we experience something transcendental is not exclusive to a purely material world.
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I don't think you correctly understand the mindset of many religious people. . .not this religous person anyway.
The emphasis was more on science beginning with the assumption that we know absolutely nothing and building forth from that, I think contrasting that against a mentality that is very prevalent in certain quarters today that a holy book is the source of knowledge, that it does hold the answers and that all it takes is more study of the book to understand more about the world.

I am well aware that most people in the modern world won't fall back on the book as the only explanation, they accept it is out of it's domain (but only because a better explanation has come alone and usurped it's place).
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Old 04-01-2008, 02:48 AM   #347
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
.Here is where there is probably some difference in outlook, while there are aspect to experience which are not readily explainable (as in they are too complex) such as art, aesthetic and feeling they are in principle the product of a material reality. Even though we all grossly simplify models for them; for instance how what we think makes us feel, decision making and relating it as free will and describing feelings. These are products of a material mind interacting with a material universe.

Just because we experience something transcendental is not exclusive to a purely material world.
I see your point.

I guess I'm referring to realities like coping with the reality of my own mortality, the certainity of death--my dissatisfaction with perceived injustices and tragedies of this world and so on. These are not really scientific questions (though I grant you the process of thinking about them--the brain chemistry etc--is of course scientific).

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
.The emphasis was more on science beginning with the assumption that we know absolutely nothing and building forth from that, I think contrasting that against a mentality that is very prevalent in certain quarters today that a holy book is the source of knowledge, that it does hold the answers and that all it takes is more study of the book to understand more about the world.

I am well aware that most people in the modern world won't fall back on the book as the only explanation, they accept it is out of it's domain (but only because a better explanation has come alone and usurped it's place).
But I don't think anyone has ever looked to a holy book as the explanation for EVERYTHING about life. The ancient Hebrew farmer wasn't checking out the Scriptures to see whether they should sow their seed. I obviously can't prove this but I've always wondered if there weren't always people who didn't really believe in a supernatural explanation for natural events--they just didn't have any other explanation at the time. I mean surely there were A_Wanderer types in ancient times, right?
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:31 PM   #348
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Originally posted by maycocksean






But I don't think anyone has ever looked to a holy book as the explanation for EVERYTHING about life. :
Our Creator gave us common sense first and foremost.


Spiritual direction is what one should look to the Holy writ for
; not the color of your neck tie.

dbs
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:13 PM   #349
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This may have been mentioned at some point...but where did the article actually come from?
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:04 PM   #350
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Originally posted by Arun V
This may have been mentioned at some point...but where did the article actually come from?
Actually I forget the source but it's a fansinating read.

I know Eastern Religions believe in good and bad forces in the universe.
Here's an interesting site:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/demon...d_Exorcism.htm
Here's a link about a Muslim supposedly possessed:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/demon...a/aa052906.htm
Signs of possession

"He can live normally, go to work and study, but occasionally he falls into a kind of hysteria where paranormal phenomena manifest, including: speaking in a voice other than his; episodes of contractions and seizures; demonstrations of abnormal strength; telekinetic effects on near and distant objects.

"Having recognized these signs, which reveal a case of possession, the person or his family introduces the patient to an exorcist who can attempt to help the patient.

"There are the other signs in the patient that the exorcist recognizes as those of possible possession: migraines; insomnia; depression; dreams of wolves, dogs, blood, massacre or falling endlessly into a vacuum; physical reports of awakening the night with visions; feelings of a presence in the room or the bed; skin lesions; failure in work, studies or marriage, etc.

Power of the Djinn

"These people can suffer from harassment by these Djinns [Islamic demons], who attack them with a specific goal and for a specific cause.





Demon Exorcisms
Find the top sites and offers for Demon Exorcisms
www.demonexorcisms.com
The Djinn's goal is to destroy the person's life and all that is good about it. One can say that the Djinn acts like a 'parasite' in order to destabilize his victim. Satan (Ibliss) is the master of demons, of the Djinns and of men who are devoted to him (even without them knowing it). They act for him. They mislead men in order to drive them to misfortune and even suicide.

"The exorcist does nothing but deliver these people with readings of the holy Koran and invocations in order to drive out these presences the patient's life or residence.

"In this video, at the end of exorcism the Djinn entity has been converted to Islam and thus will not inflict any m
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:28 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V
This may have been mentioned at some point...but where did the article actually come from?
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Actually I forget the source but it's a fansinating read.
Oh Diamond, you know exactly where it came from:


Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk


I was curious as to who would actually publish such crap, so I did some digging. The New Oxford Review is a religious publication, and not a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Here's the link to the original article:

http://www.newoxfordreview.org/artic...0308-gallagher

I was also curious as to who this 'board certified psychiatrist' is, and what would prompt him to investigate such nonsense. This is at the beginning of the article:

Richard E. Gallagher, M.D., is a board-certified psychiatrist in private practice in Hawthorne, New York, and Associate Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at New York Medical College. He is also on the faculties of the Columbia University Psychoanalytic Institute and a Roman Catholic seminary. He is a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of Princeton University, magna cum laude in Classics, and trained in Psychiatry at the Yale University School of Medicine. Dr. Gallagher is the only American psychiatrist to have been a consistent U.S. delegate to the International Association of Exorcists, and has addressed its plenary session.

So, he obviously has an interest in promoting a Catholic agenda.


Mystery solved. It's crap.
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:33 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk




Oh Diamond, you know exactly where it came from:


That's right you claimed it was crap and that was our first and only major disagreement, since then we've became sorta of cyber pen pals on the boards with differing view points.

<>
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:39 PM   #353
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Originally posted by diamond


That's right you claimed it was crap and that was our first and only major disagreement, since then we've became sorta of cyber pen pals on the boards with differing view points.

<>
Major disagreement? I'm sorta flattered. But I do admit, I'm glad we've practically become BFF, despite our differences.

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Old 04-08-2008, 12:51 PM   #354
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Originally posted by VintagePunk


Major disagreement? I'm sorta flattered. But I do admit, I'm glad we've practically become BFF, despite our differences.

VP-

Yes yes forgive more my oversight.

Everyday I'm poring over contracts, juggling too teenaged girls who are wonderful and sometimes demanding, a beautiful wife with a masters degree who is continually pushing me to finish my AA, and righting the wrong here in FYM, a pimp never had it so easy.

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Old 04-08-2008, 12:56 PM   #355
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It's a hard knock life, isn't it? Why, you're practically a superhero, aren't you? Keep up the good work.

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