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View Poll Results: Is Demonic Possession real or group hysteria?
Absolutely real 10 18.87%
Probably real 2 3.77%
It's real, but you have to invite evil influences into your life 8 15.09%
No, not real; anyone claiming this is a mental case. 28 52.83%
There is a good force and a bad force in our universe-a person has to decide which force they choose to serve 2 3.77%
diamondbruno#9, do you have your own church and gospel? 3 5.66%
diamond you always make the best threads; cutting edge, pushing the intellectual and religious envelope; Bravo 6 11.32%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:15 PM   #331
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Strange question but, why do all faiths differ ? surely if it was god will they all follow the same code of conduct ?
Why do all atheists differ? Surely if there was no god they would all follow the same code of conduct no?
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:50 PM   #332
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what's your view on the subject of NDE and their impact?

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Old 03-31-2008, 03:54 AM   #333
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maycocksean-

what's your view on the subject of NDE and their impact?

dbs
Actually, I believe that when people die, they're dead, they don't have any consciousness or anything until the end of the age i.e. the Second Coming of Christ and they are resurrected. So my view, ironically would be more similar to that of atheist or agnostic--the NDE's are the brains reaction to shutting down etc.

This is because Adventists don't believe there is any seperation between body and the "soul"--no "ghost in the machine." It's why materialistic explanations of spiritual experiences (i.e. brain chemistry etc) really don't bother my faith outlook because for me that would be a given that God works through our biological processes not independent of them (though He is of course, Himself, independent of them).

Course we could be wrong. Let's face it nobody REALLY knows what happens when curtain falls on our mortality.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:24 AM   #334
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True, nobody knows, but we can appreciate the likelihood of different options based on the evidence; science points to no afterlife at the moment because mind is material.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:44 AM   #335
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True, nobody knows, but we can appreciate the likelihood of different options based on the evidence; science points to no afterlife at the moment because mind is material.
Yes, it's true that a strictly materialistic view of the world would not indicate the supernatural. For those of us who are willing to consider other types of evidence--the ancedotal, subjective stuff, if you will--there's maybe more to the story.

For some perhaps the 10,000 Maniac's lyric "Science is truth for life" is not tongue in cheek--but for many people, science alone is not enough. I'm not saying the science "should not" be enough for anyone--it clearly is for you--just stating the fact that for most of the world--even in this modern age where science answers so many questions, it appears to not be enough.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:12 AM   #336
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But the common threads of the anecdote reconcile with a brain in crisis, a brain shutting down.

Science isn't a way of life, it is a way of approximating the way things are. What cuts closer to the core is how one views reality, and in that I find it very hard to accept a God explanation - a leap of faith like that, on a question of such fundamental importance is hard, and not necessarily good.

Building up from a state of utter ignorance seems much more humbling than accepting revealed supposed truth.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:40 AM   #337
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I think science is more of man's soul groping for truth.

I also think that a paradigm shift is needed here.

Our souls are eternal. This earth life existence is in comparison to he age of our solus is about 3 seconds -once we realize how long eternity is.

I will write more on all of this later.

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Old 03-31-2008, 01:26 PM   #338
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Originally posted by maycocksean


Why do all atheists differ? Surely if there was no god they would all follow the same code of conduct no?
We dont have a code of conduct and because of this we are free to choose are own destiny and make up our own minds without foreign influence, we dont have holy scrolls that attempt to dictate our lives, we dont have a spiritual leader.

Atheism could be seen as a religion in its self but obviously it isnt.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:39 PM   #339
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Are you famliar with this site, if so what do you think?:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index...howtopic=18101

dbs
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:58 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02


We dont have a code of conduct and because of this we are free to choose are own destiny and make up our own minds without foreign influence, we dont have holy scrolls that attempt to dictate our lives, we dont have a spiritual leader.

Atheism could be seen as a religion in its self but obviously it isnt.
Ha, I remember Pat Condell once called atheism a religion. I've always found him funny, even if I disagree with him.

Anyway, Christians can pretty much do whatever they want as well. It's not as if we're strapped to our faith for life and nailed down, but we choose to keep to it because we feel it generally leads us in the right direction.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:22 PM   #341
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But the common threads of the anecdote reconcile with a brain in crisis, a brain shutting down.
I wasn't referring to that particular anecdote. If you read my previous posts you know my view on NDE's is the same as yours.

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Science isn't a way of life, it is a way of approximating the way things are. What cuts closer to the core is how one views reality, and in that I find it very hard to accept a God explanation - a leap of faith like that, on a question of such fundamental importance is hard, and not necessarily good.
For me at least, science is not the sole way in which I approximate how things are or the nature of reality. There are aspects of my existence that are beyond the scope of science.

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Building up from a state of utter ignorance seems much more humbling than accepting revealed supposed truth.
I don't think you correctly understand the mindset of many religious people. . .not this religous person anyway.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:24 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02


We dont have a code of conduct and because of this we are free to choose are own destiny and make up our own minds without foreign influence, we dont have holy scrolls that attempt to dictate our lives, we dont have a spiritual leader.

Atheism could be seen as a religion in its self but obviously it isnt.
My point was that believers are different because people are different. In that sense, it's the same reason atheists differ in points of view.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:37 PM   #343
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Are you famliar with this site, if so what do you think?:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index...howtopic=18101

dbs
I've never heard of the site, but found it interesting. RE: the discussion of NDE's in the thread. I find it interesting. . .When it comes to faith matters, they're exactly that, faith matters--we can't know for sure and thus I think theological beliefs need to be held somewhat loosely (they are not scientific after all--as has been pointed out ad nauseum on this thread already--and thus can't be proven in the traditional sense) and not fought over to the death. I'm not willing to fight tooth and nail over my belief in the indivision of body and soul, but at the same time, I'm not yet convinced that I'm wrong. It would take more than one story of somebody's grandma to do that, I think.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:01 PM   #344
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I've never heard of the site, but found it interesting. RE: the discussion of NDE's in the thread. I find it interesting. . .When it comes to faith matters, they're exactly that, faith matters--we can't know for sure and thus I think theological beliefs need to be held somewhat loosely (they are not scientific after all--as has been pointed out ad nauseum on this thread already--and thus can't be proven in the traditional sense) and not fought over to the death. I'm not willing to fight tooth and nail over my belief in the indivision of body and soul, but at the same time, I'm not yet convinced that I'm wrong. It would take more than one story of somebody's grandma to do that, I think.
Yes, there are a lot of religious site boards these days.
Catholic
LDS
7th Day Adventists
JW
Born Again

etc.

All are a little interesting and I have membership at a few outside of here.

I've known a few Adventist and respect your faith.
I understand that you guys believe:

-Christ didn't organize a visible church, that his disciples did later after his ressurecction.
-You believe in 3 seperate essences in the Godhead or Trinity.
-Man was created for the glory of God
-Your health code is similar to our Word of Wisdom, maybe we can meet up for a cup of Postum one day.
-Miracles still happen today.
-That the bread and wine our symbolic of Chirst's body and not the eurachrist.
-You believe in a literal ressurection
-Satan to be a miserable fallen being/angel. He will eventually be destroyed when God feels Satan has ran his course.


Regarding NDES:


Probably the best organized NDE site with the most respected, educated, non emotional- almost pragmatic opinions are here:

http://www.near-death.com/



They have sections and sections of rational people having NDEs.
Here's the section on Atheists:

http://www.near-death.com/atheists.html

Enjoy.

dbs
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:23 AM   #345
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Yes, there are a lot of religious site boards these days.
Catholic
LDS
7th Day Adventists
JW
Born Again

etc.

All are a little interesting and I have membership at a few outside of here.
Wow! I barely have time for Interference. I'm amazed you're able to post on other boards as well!

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

I've known a few Adventist and respect your faith.
I understand that you guys believe:

-Christ didn't organize a visible church, that his disciples did later after his ressurecction.
-You believe in 3 seperate essences in the Godhead or Trinity.
-Man was created for the glory of God
-Your health code is similar to our Word of Wisdom, maybe we can meet up for a cup of Postum one day.
-Miracles still happen today.
-That the bread and wine our symbolic of Chirst's body and not the eurachrist.
-You believe in a literal ressurection
-Satan to be a miserable fallen being/angel. He will eventually be destroyed when God feels Satan has ran his course.
I suppose that's about right, though beliefs 1 and 3 aren't really talked about that much or emphasized. #2, I think is right if you mean that our belief in the trinity is the same as most mainstream Christians.

#5 is technically true, but especially in North America in actual practice, Adventists are pretty skittish about anything that seems too miraculous or supernaturalistic. There's no healings or exorcisms happening in our churches on any kind of regular basis.

Everything else is about right. (Though I admitt, I drink coffee and in fact that standard is slowly fading away in our church, especially in my generation).

I know a couple of LDS members here in Saipan and we've had some good talks!
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