Demonic Possession, is it real or group hysteria? - Page 21 - U2 Feedback

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View Poll Results: Is Demonic Possession real or group hysteria?
Absolutely real 10 18.87%
Probably real 2 3.77%
It's real, but you have to invite evil influences into your life 8 15.09%
No, not real; anyone claiming this is a mental case. 28 52.83%
There is a good force and a bad force in our universe-a person has to decide which force they choose to serve 2 3.77%
diamondbruno#9, do you have your own church and gospel? 3 5.66%
diamond you always make the best threads; cutting edge, pushing the intellectual and religious envelope; Bravo 6 11.32%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:47 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
Slavery didn't vanish with Christianity taking over.

Do you see me as a threat only because I don't believe at all? Do you think that through me being a non-believer I think in any way different about respect, just behaviour or charity?
No I don't. Certainly something that I argue is universal must be discoverable in many ways. Of coarse an atheist can live an ethical life.
However, you cannot deny that you somewhat piggyback on the Judeo-Christian traditions of the West and you live in a society where a transcendental morality or natural law is still taken for granted by the majority -- even if they don't associate it with organized religion.
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Old 03-29-2008, 11:00 AM   #302
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Originally posted by INDY500

Which do you consider the source of your basic rights? Do you consider them unalienable or can they be taken away by "rule of law"?
Depends on what you consider to be a basic right.
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:21 PM   #303
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Kids you know now I'm saving some of my greatest works and posts for the right moment in this thread correct?

Timing is indeed one of my greatest virtues.

dbs
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:26 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
In the end, I think we all believe what we want to believe.

I know I've said that before, but I'm just saying on this particular topic, it remains true as well.

I do find it puzzling though that many of my fellow believers discount demon possession. One other thought, my brother is a paranoid schizophrenic and we are a religous family (though, he, himself is an atheist). We never once confused his condition with demon possession.
Great post, with a large point being made, I see your unconditional love for your brother, which is wonderful.

I think it comes more natural for a believer to love an afflicted person.

dbs
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:54 PM   #305
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Originally posted by diamond


Great post, with a large point being made, I see your unconditional love for your brother, which is wonderful.

I think it comes more natural for a believer to love an afflicted person.

dbs
Could you sound any more patronizing ?
So you say non believers cant find it in their heart to care for someone who has some sort of disability, are we really that inhuman ?
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:02 PM   #306
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yes to your first question, but i choose not to of course.

no to your 2nd question, some non believers are the absolute best humanitarians and because they are the next life will be quite a pleasant yet unexpected surprise.

dbs
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:05 PM   #307
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Originally posted by diamond
yes to your first question, but i choose not to of course.

no to your 2nd question, some non believers are the absolute best humanitarians and because they are the next life will be quite a pleasant yet unexpected surprise.

dbs
Believers are going to be quite disapointed
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:15 PM   #308
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Originally posted by vaz02


Believers are going to be quite disapointed
Actually wouldn't we not know the difference? If you're right and there is no God, then when we die, it's over and we never realize that there was no afterlife. . .
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:34 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


Actually wouldn't we not know the difference? .
Correct and based on all the medical evidence by NDEs which continue to grow, hospice workers' testiomonies and other data being collected slowly but surely the tide of disbelief is turning into belief.

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Old 03-29-2008, 06:53 PM   #310
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Originally posted by diamond


Correct and based on all the medical evidence by NDEs which continue to grow, hospice workers' testiomonies and other data being collected slowly but surely the tide of disbelief is turning into belief.

dbs
Belief is different to fact though. As it stands there is no god and there is no afterlife.

I see you refer to these NDE's a lot but maybe people turn to faith after these events because they dont want to risk it. These people are not atheists, these people were/are undecided.

Strange question but, why do all faiths differ ? surely if it was god will they all follow the same code of conduct ?
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Old 03-29-2008, 08:28 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02


Belief is different to fact though. As it stands there is no god and there is no afterlife.

I see you refer to these NDE's a lot but maybe people turn to faith after these events because they dont want to risk it. These people are not atheists, these people were/are undecided.

Strange question but, why do all faiths differ ? surely if it was god will they all follow the same code of conduct ?

vaz02-

There have been a lot of good and bad athetists that have had Near Death Experiences.

You can't dismiss them with the "your brain was being deprive of oxygen rouine and you had a fantastic hallucination" routine.

If you're really interested probably one of the best books to read regarding this is George Ritchie's book written about 30 years ago what happen to him in the 1930s or 40s. He was about 20 years of age when it happened and was dying of pneumonia. He was ridiculed by many at first and then as more ppl had similar experiences people laugh and scoffed less. He later went on to become a MD.

The reason for so many churches is God allows man to have hthere free will in interpreation of His word. Everyone will have an eternity in paradise to figure things out and continue to grow.
Life really just begins in our next life people say, you have no infirmities, perfect bodies and all knowledge.

The religions that try to scare you in to being good with the threat of a never ending Hell are incorrect interpreatations of scripture.

Hell does exist, along with Satan however unlike most Orthodox Christians my belief is that a person's stay in Hell will not be infinite, but finite thru the Grace of God's Son, who paid for our mistakes based on what we did here in this life based on the knowledge and enviorment we were came from. This differs from most Churches which is why a lot of ppl are turned off. Nobody wants to be scared into being good.

You will find in the next life God will be much fairer than most people think He is. The crap that ppl have to put up with here-will be awarded for there, all inequity will be rewarded with equity a 100 fold more than we're allowed to understand here. The trick here is to live in the present the best way we can by helping our fellow man out with our time, love and resources. That I think is what a lot of athetists believe, which is a sense of fair play for everyone and pretty much The Golden Rule.

Oh, I posted a link to the book by Dr Ritchie before, here it is again:

http://www.amazon.com/Return-Tomorro.../dp/080078412X

I hope you decide to read it, it's fascinating.


dbs
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:23 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond



vaz02-

There have been a lot of good and bad athetists that have had Near Death Experiences.

You can't dismiss them with the "your brain was being deprive of oxygen rouine and you had a fantastic hallucination" routine.




dbs
He could of been having a dream. Lets face it no one is gonna particularly care if you dream about a rabbit trying to eat you but having some sort of dream about an afterlife after suffering a near death experience somehow captures peoples imagination. Im sure people have had visions of an afterlife in their dreams without a NDE but because of the event that occurred it must be holy and marked as 'evidence 1' in the case of life after death.

Im actually gonna go buy that book you suggested, i need some reading material.

If god is everywhere and is listening to our every word ( like Santa, because if god is real Santa must be too) surely we should eliminate churches, mosques, synagogue's and other places of worship, because after all isnt this god's gift to us, the universe ? People and religious authorities making money or gain from the system discourages me a lot.


Im sure in a few hundred years time mankind will look upon the past few thousand years the way we did, when back in days of ancient Greece a earthquake meant the gods were unhappy.
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:56 PM   #313
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The main problem with any conversion arguments is that they are a combination of feeling and anecdote; two of the most unreliable forms of evidence. There is a good reason that I don't rattle off names of people that loose their faith and become atheists, it's because it doesn't effect reality. How many people believe or don't believe has nothing to do with the nature of God, an entity isn't willed into existence by peoples belief and neither would it cease to exist if people turned away from faith.

Nobody has put unequivocal evidence for God out there, as persuading as Kirk Camerons homoerotic banana fondling explanation of special creation may be for a believer it doesn't come close to the artificial agrarian selection of the plant by man. The absence of evidence is why a God based explanation always falls short, it is why there is no reason to think that God exists. And if as it seems the universe is as though God doesn't exist justifying morality against an impossible entity seems very flawed.

There may not be absolute objective morality, but that does not undo consensuality and mutually agreed and respected conditions for society. The detail that mathematic simulations of how actors benefit depending on choices produces rudimentary "moral" tactics places what we consider good in the realm of mutual benefit.

There is a lot of audacity in those claiming absolute moral justification, not only do they claim that it exists, but that it is fortunately the same moral standards that their religion extols. If somebody is executed for apostacy in Islam because they convert to Christianity isn't that just as morally valid as the inquisition killing an infidel (or heretic, as even believing in the same god may not be enough).

Claims to absolute morality are inherently subjective. The argument that secular law is weak because it doesn't use God as a lawgiver and is therefore subject to change and interpretation is the height of hypocrisy.

And Vaz natural disasters are still a product of the Gods unhappiness, faggotry and abortion deliver hurricanes and tsunamis.
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:03 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02


He could of been having a dream.
Im actually gonna go buy that book you suggested, i need some reading material.

If god is everywhere


Im sure in a few hundred years time mankind will look upon the past few thousand years the way we did, when back in days of ancient Greece a earthquake meant the gods were unhappy.
I'm glad to hear you're going to read the book, it may change your mind or perspective.


God is not everywhere, but his influence is.

My belief is natural diasters are allowed to happen to see if we as God's children will help one another-long story short.

God is not sitting around shaking the world because he's mad however-Satan wants ppl to think that I believe to make worshipping God a turn off.

dbs
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:05 PM   #315
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The main problem with any conversion arguments is that they are a combination of feeling and anecdote; two of the most unreliable forms of evidence.
Indeed, and if believers are entitled to point to conversion stories as evidence of the existence of a deity, then surely atheists are entitled to point to de-conversion stories as evidence against(and I've seen quite a few on atheist discussion forums, as matter of fact.)
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