Demonic Possession, is it real or group hysteria? - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
View Poll Results: Is Demonic Possession real or group hysteria?
Absolutely real 10 18.87%
Probably real 2 3.77%
It's real, but you have to invite evil influences into your life 8 15.09%
No, not real; anyone claiming this is a mental case. 28 52.83%
There is a good force and a bad force in our universe-a person has to decide which force they choose to serve 2 3.77%
diamondbruno#9, do you have your own church and gospel? 3 5.66%
diamond you always make the best threads; cutting edge, pushing the intellectual and religious envelope; Bravo 6 11.32%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-16-2008, 01:46 AM   #136
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
What is a 'hard-core atheist'?
Those who are atheists and appear intolerant and/or highly insulting to those who are not. Their religious counterpart would be what we call "fundamentalist Christians."
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 02:21 AM   #137
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Most athesists I know are wonderful ppl, better than many "God fearing" ppl.


dbs
It's nice to hear you say that. I label myself as more agnostic than atheistic. An atheist without balls, some might say. I like to think it's more that I remain open minded.


On the subject of NDE, and what people perceive to be happening during times such as this, I once heard a professor say it's been posited that these are hallucinations that are experienced as the brain is shutting down - as it's dying.

I can't really expand further that that, though. These processes tread into areas of physiology that are currently beyond the scope of my knowledge.
__________________

__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 02:26 AM   #138
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:32 AM
I would rather cease to exist.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 03:22 AM   #139
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I would rather cease to exist.
Maybe you can hook up with fellow Aussie Ian McCormack.

He's a former atheist and about you're age when his NDE happened.

His was surfing here:



He got stung a bunch of times by box jelly fish and died.



According to his account, he was dead and on his way to a Hell like sphere, he was stopped in the process and given a choice to return and work out his life on Earth, he was told to tell about his experience and encouraged to do good in the world.

Or you can just find out about it later.



dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 04:05 AM   #140
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:32 AM
Anecdotal evidence is worthless, the common elements of near death experiences (detatchment, moving towards a light etc.) having affinities to experiences produced by an oxygen deprived brain points to a material cause with a nonetheless fascinating insight into the workings of the mind.

Just as mental illness was taken out of the fantastical religious sphere and rightly put as a medical issue so too will near death experiences. This will happen because the technology to prevent death will improve as well as the capacity to probe the workings of the mind.

It's a fools game to try to marry religious faith to real world phenomena, that sort of God of the gaps is inevitably edged out by the natural explanation.

The more important on topic issue of Demonic Possession is really a very sad thing; how many innocent victims of mental illness have been and continue to be abused because of primitive beliefs. It may well be a reasonable thing for a bronze age society but it is an assault on reason today, it's essentially the same as Scientology.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 09:07 AM   #141
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Anecdotal evidence is worthless, the common elements of near death experiences (detatchment, moving towards a light etc.) having affinities to experiences produced by an oxygen deprived brain points to a material cause with a nonetheless fascinating insight into the workings of the mind.



It's a fools game to try to marry religious faith to real world phenomena, that sort of God of the gaps is inevitably edged out by the natural explanation.

That's a lazy way man's out.
More and more empirical evidence surfaces each day.

Demonic possession is real, the same with mental illness; sometimes people have both.

Spiritual denial trumps all of them though, but God allows this, it's part of His plan. He wont intercede into man exercising their own free will; unless you ask him-and if it's his will he will incercede to give a person guidance, protection or personal revelation.

In the meantime keep on continuing to search for your "missing link" and when you come up empty-we'll still be here.



God bless.



dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 11:31 AM   #142
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
vaz02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: manchester
Posts: 7,447
Local Time: 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond




The after life is much larger than Earth. Remember that 3 billion ppl live on Earth now; an estimated 6 billion have lived on Earth since it's inception or creation.

dbs
Earth has approximately 6,671,226,000 human inhabitants.

I think China,India and Brazil together hit 3 billion+.
__________________
vaz02 is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 11:40 AM   #143
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02


Earth has approximately 6,671,226,000 human inhabitants.

I think China,India and Brazil together hit 3 billion+.
my bad, i will have to look into it.

my point is the afterlife place is much larger than earth right now when you take into the account of the total human race living here since it's creation.

dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 11:57 AM   #144
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
vaz02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: manchester
Posts: 7,447
Local Time: 01:32 AM
I just find it really hard to believe there is some sort of afterlife or paradise after death, it most certainly wouldnt be my idea of paradise sharing a room with Hitler or the boy that stole my apple when i was 4.

So in your idea of Paradise are their pets there ? buildings ? what time zone is it ? what is the weather like ? does time exist ? can i travel by plane to get to destinations ? is it like a dream ? is it even like the Matrix ?

So many questions.
__________________
vaz02 is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 01:35 PM   #145
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02
I just find it really hard to believe there is some sort of afterlife or paradise after death, it most certainly wouldnt be my idea of paradise sharing a room with Hitler or the boy that stole my apple when i was 4.

So in your idea of Paradise are their pets there ? buildings ? what time zone is it ? what is the weather like ? does time exist ? can i travel by plane to get to destinations ? is it like a dream ? is it even like the Matrix ?

So many questions.
Yes, so many questions, and I don't have the answrs, but from what ppl who've been there the consenus is this:

Hilter and an innocent child would be in 2 different spheres.

It's more like the matrix.
One language is employed and it's done usually telepathically.

Pets often times greet their owners once they arrive.

Time doesot exist at all, nor does competition nor class envy or struggle; it's paradise.

You travel by thinking where you want to go and there is an order there, it's not chaotic.

If it's God's will you're allowed to assist close friends and relatives who are grieving your loss who are still living on Earth.

That's all I have right now.

dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 02:13 PM   #146
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer

Placing a supernatural cause is problematic to me, a big reason is that I feel it implies a mind-body dualism that doesn't fit in with my view of the world (consciousness is a product of biology, not an element separate from the brain).
There are problems with such reductionism.

Can you explain the subjective experience of sensation (opposed to the objective sensing of a thermometer or photocell) using only the materialistic laws of chemistry and physics.

Define free will mathematically as either compulsive "law" or "random" illogicalness.

Explain why a computer can be built to reason but that it could never understand as a man can.

Write a moral code without eternal absolute standards.

And finally can you demystify how this all came about, how unconsciousness evolved into self-consciousness.

Don't get me wrong, science should be materialistic in it's approach, but maybe scientific truth is not the whole truth.
Maybe free will and rational intellect are spiritual faculties...the soul of a man
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 03:03 PM   #147
Blue Crack Addict
 
Varitek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: on borderland we run
Posts: 16,861
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Presuming that NDEs are truly supernatural experiences (and a good part of me hopes that they are), how does one reconcile the unorthodox "truths" one garnishes from them?

I've read a few of their case studies before. One NDE, in particular, was quite detailed, and argued that "God" was, essentially, present in every religion on Earth, Christian and non-Christian alike, and that, upon one's death, He merely shows Himself to you in the way you'd recognize Him. If you're expecting a Christian Heaven, that's what you get. If you're expecting something Buddhist, you'd get that instead. And he argued that hell did exist for many souls; it was a self-imposed place of torment that they would send themselves to, out of shame and fear of facing God--and a state that they could just as easily renounce, thus being free to be with God in the end.

Not every NDE out there plays a consistent message; this could be an explanation as to why--again, presuming that they are supernatural. I am quite intrigued, though, if it were a scientific phenomenon and merely a figment of one's imagination, I often wonder why so many people "dream" of their own afterlife.
interesting. so what would an atheist see?
__________________
Varitek is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 03:05 PM   #148
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
vaz02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: manchester
Posts: 7,447
Local Time: 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Yes, so many questions, and I don't have the answrs, but from what ppl who've been there the consenus is this:

Hilter and an innocent child would be in 2 different spheres.

It's more like the matrix.
One language is employed and it's done usually telepathically.

Pets often times greet their owners once they arrive.

Time doesot exist at all, nor does competition nor class envy or struggle; it's paradise.

You travel by thinking where you want to go and there is an order there, it's not chaotic.

If it's God's will you're allowed to assist close friends and relatives who are grieving your loss who are still living on Earth.

That's all I have right now.

dbs
Of course there is no proof to support this but it sounds quite good.

Out of curosity, Hitler loved pets so would his pets join him in this other sphere ?

Im fascinated by this afterlife stuff, i loved reading about it when i studied the Egyptians and Vikings a few years back.
__________________
vaz02 is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 03:55 PM   #149
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02


Of course there is no proof to support this but it sounds quite good.

Out of curosity, Hitler loved pets so would his pets join him in this other sphere ?

Im fascinated by this afterlife stuff, i loved reading about it when i studied the Egyptians and Vikings a few years back.
in certain spheres in the afterlife-the good ones (paradise) people are reunited with loved ones, family friends and sometimes pets-from what i've read.

in hellish spheres you recognize no one, are tormented there. Interestingly also from the experiences that I've read about, there are no children in the hellish spheres (children can't sin) and I don't think you'd find your pets there-since you don't recognize any friends or family or loved ones.


dbs
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 03-16-2008, 04:07 PM   #150
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
vaz02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: manchester
Posts: 7,447
Local Time: 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond




i Interestingly also from the experiences that I've read about, there are no children in the hellish spheres (children can't sin) and I don't think you'd find your pets there-since you don't recognize any friends or family or loved ones.


dbs
What age would you class a child though ?

In England a few years ago a kid called James Bulger was murdered by two 10 year olds, he was savaegly beaten. Before they left him, the boys laid Bulger across the railway tracks and weighted his head down with rubble, in hopes that a passing train would hit him and make his death appear to be an accident.

That sounds like a sin to me.

How about those who have a mental age of a child, would those be counted as children ?
__________________

__________________
vaz02 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com