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Old 07-16-2001, 11:39 AM   #1
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Except for the obscenities and gestures, I agree with these protesters 100 %. What about you all?

Floridans Protest Street Cameras
The Associated Press
Sunday, July 15, 2001; 5:30 p.m. EDT

TAMPA, Fla. Wearing masks and making obscene gestures at police cameras, about 100 people protested a new security system that scans faces in the city's crime-ridden nightlife district to search for wanted persons.

"Being watched on a public street is just plain wrong," said May Becker, wearing a bar code sticker on her forehead.

Becker joined demonstrators in the Ybor City district Saturday night, wearing a sign reading: "We're under house arrest in the land of the free."

One protester walked by a camera, gestured obscenely and shouted, "Digitize this!"

Others wore gas masks, Groucho Marx glasses and other items to protest the FaceIt scanning system police are using in a neighborhood that attracts 75,000 to 150,000 people on weekend nights.

The video cameras snap pictures of faces in the crowd and compare them to a database of 30,000 people that includes runaway teens and wanted criminals. It works by analyzing 80 facial points between the nose, cheekbones and eyes.

Tampa is the only American city where police use the face-recognition technology for routine surveillance, but Virginia Beach, Va., is seeking a $150,000 state grant for a similar system.

So far, police say the system has not led to any arrests although it has been used in Ybor the past two weekends.
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Old 07-17-2001, 07:19 AM   #2
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Hmm... Big Brother is watching, apparently. Around here and also in London street cameras a being used as a deterrent, and the tapes can be used by the police once a crime has been committed, but what you're describing sounds pretty OTT, paranoid and unnecessary.

However, I do not agree that being watched in public is wrong. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear from surveillance cameras. But in my opinion, recordings should only be allowed to be reviewed or used in any other way if a crime has been committed.

I also doubt if this system works. I mean, we are talking about snapshots, not a proper mug-shot from the traditional angles in a well-lit room. It's probably just another way of wasting tax-payers' money.
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Old 07-17-2001, 05:17 PM   #3
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And violating the whole probable cause for search thing. Just a Constitutional thought.

klodomir, here in the United States our Constitution protects us from this kind of crap, whether I have something to hide or not.
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Old 07-17-2001, 07:04 PM   #4
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*shudder* that's freaky. I mean, I know we should just be good little children and trust that our government would never ever do anything to infringe upon our rights or harm us...after all they know best...

ick.

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Old 07-18-2001, 03:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha:
klodomir, here in the United States our Constitution protects us from this kind of crap, whether I have something to hide or not.
But this was in Florida, right?

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Old 07-18-2001, 04:26 AM   #6
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dont even start with the americans Klodmir. They will give you the constituntional speech till you die!

But if it was there runaway teen they'd be running for help!!!

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Old 07-18-2001, 09:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman:
dont even start with the americans Klodmir. They will give you the constituntional speech till you die!
But if it was there runaway teen they'd be running for help!!!
And why shouldn't we "give the constitutional speech"? It is the "law of our land".
And I'll be honest with you. If it was my runaway teen, and they were able to find her through the use of one of those cameras, yes, I'd be happy. However, that doesn't mean it's right to have them up there. It IS a violation of our constitutional right to privacy.
Bonoman, as you may have surmised from some of my other posts, I don't trust governments. I don't believe that just because the US has had a relatively non-obtrusive government up to this point, that means it will necessarily stay that way. I don't believe in giving "Big Brother" any additional tools by which he will be able to spy on the people of this nation. There may come a day when certain law-abiding groups of people (religious, political, etc.) are less welcome in this country than they are now. If/when that happens, I don't want them having the ability to watch my every step.

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Old 07-18-2001, 10:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klodomir:
[b]
But this was in Florida, right?


Um, yeah. Florida is one of the big Five-O.

[This message has been edited by martha (edited 07-18-2001).]
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Old 07-18-2001, 10:55 AM   #9
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Wow, I can't believe I was being controversial without even trying to be! LOL!!

But 80s, it's what they do with the recordings that bothers you, not the cameras, isn't it? Because I'm sure there's already closed-circuit TV in every mall and supermarket in America, so that can't be unconstitutional, or did I misunderstand something?
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Old 07-18-2001, 10:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha:
Um, yeah. Florida is one of the big Five-O.
So how come they can even do this? Do you think they're just trying to see if they can get away with it?



[This message has been edited by Klodomir (edited 07-18-2001).]
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Old 07-18-2001, 02:00 PM   #11
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Hey Klodomir, you British? Did you see the last series of the Mark Thomas Product on Channel 4? He was going on about this same system that's being introduced over here and he said that under the data protection act you can demand back the footage taken of you by these cameras. So he started this competition whereby you get caught on CCTV doing something funny, demand your footage back, send it to him and Johnathan Ross judge s which is the funniest and you could win the competition. Good show. Very funny. Hope they do antoher series.

[This message has been edited by misterboo (edited 07-18-2001).]
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Old 07-18-2001, 02:34 PM   #12
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No, I'm in the Netherlands, and we can only receive BBC1 and BBC2, so I never see Mr. Woss anymore.

Sounds like good, clean fun, though! I wouldn't be surprised if Dutch television bought it. The Dutch tend to make fun of things like that rather than get riled up, so I'm sure it would do well here. And in Denmark, where I'm originally from, they would probably run around naked shooting Dogme movies with those cameras!
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Old 07-19-2001, 02:15 AM   #13
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Martha, I'm still wondering what the point of your two posts to me was? I mean, this is happening in the US, not in Europe. Our privacy is still safe.
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:35 AM   #14
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Klodo, baby, I'm here.

Yes, here in the US we have an incredible Constitution that protects us from both the excesses of our government and from individuals and groups who would try to inhibit our personal liberties and rights. IN THEORY, anyway.

Frequently Americans are more than willing to give up these rights if it means less thinking and individual responsibility for them. You will frequently hear the "I have nothing to hide" argument, until these intrusions start to affect those people, even when they have nothing to hide. Then it is too late; the courts and cops are more than willing to accomodate them in their quest to abdicate their responsibilities and give up their rights in many cases.

Yes, private companies use CCTV, but they are limited in their use, AND they are private. The thing in Florida appears to be a government exercise.
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Old 07-19-2001, 01:49 PM   #15
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Ok you live on a busy street. like 2000 people pour out of the bars at last call. Your house get pissed on you cant fall asleep and your windows get smashed. Oh ya you dont have enough money to move. Sounds hypothetical>? Nope. Where i live there is a situation going on right now. We had a Canada Day Riot. Now they are looking into ways of stoping the fights and drunks on Whyte Ave. I'd be for this if i lived in the neighboorhood!

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