DeLay indicted! will step aside as speaker of the House

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pax said:
Well, then, the justice system should have no problem trying and convicting him, and he should be punished.

It has begun to worry me a lot lately that the court of public opinion tries people before they get an actual trial. Don't get me wrong; I'm no fan of DeLay and everyone here should know that. But if he's done that for which he's been indicted, then the justice system will be able to prove that. And he should then receive appropriate punishment.

The court of public opinion thought Michael Jackson was guilty, yet he was acquitted. Of course, many believe he should have been convicted. I see nothing wrong in discussing cases involving public figures. There are adequate procedures to ensure jury members are not pre-disposed to pre-judge cases.
 
If we stepped back and removed the "R" and "D" polarization, we would find a very small, some may call insiginificant, charge. He is not charged with violating campaign laws, he's charged with conspiracy to violate campaign laws. "Conspiracy" is an often used "lesser included" charge when a crime involves more than one person. But he wasn't charged with the base crime.

But, I'm with Pax. If the facts support the charge, he should pay the price.
 
nbcrusader said:
If we stepped back and removed the "R" and "D" polarization, we would find a very small, some may call insiginificant, charge. He is not charged with violating campaign laws, he's charged with conspiracy to violate campaign laws. "Conspiracy" is an often used "lesser included" charge when a crime involves more than one person. But he wasn't charged with the base crime.



well, they got Al Capone on tax evasion ...

;)
 
I don't think it's improper to be happy that maybe he'll finally be held accountable.

http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=430

DeLay’s Dirty (Baker’s) Dozen
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay has been a busy man these last few years. Whether bribing congressmen, threatening political opponents, vacationing with lobbyists, or gutting House ethics rules, it’s been hard to keep up with all the Hammer’s activities. Here are thirteen highlights from DeLay’s illustrious career:

DELAY KILLS INVESTIGATION INTO LABOR ABUSE IN MARIANAS ISLANDS:

DELAY RAISES CORPORATE CASH FOR TRMPAC

DELAY BRIBES CONGRESSMAN TO VOTE FOR MEDICARE

DELAY USES TAXPAYER MONEY FOR PARTISAN STUNT

DELAY PAYS FOR GOLF TOURNAMENTS WITH CASH MEANT FOR KIDS

DELAY PROMISES ‘SEAT AT TABLE’ FOR DONOR

DELAY TAKES MONEY FROM TEXAS PRISON COMPANY WITH LEGISLATION PENDING

DELAY BLOCKS LEGISLATION FOR PARTISAN VENDETTA

....ect
 
diamond said:
witch hunt.

db9

delaywitch.jpg


"I'll get you, my pretty! And your little dog too! eeeeeeeeheheheheheheheeee!!!!"


couldn't resist :shrug:
 
Witchhunt my ass. Sigh, Republicans, so disconnected from reality.

District Attorney Ronnie Earle — a Democrat — has investigated four times as many Democrats as Republicans during his time as a prosecutor.
 
xana dew said:
Witchhunt my ass. Sigh, Republicans, so disconnected from reality.

District Attorney Ronnie Earle — a Democrat — has investigated four times as many Democrats as Republicans during his time as a prosecutor.

anger is a common reaction when exposed.

db9
 
xana dew said:

District Attorney Ronnie Earle — a Democrat — has investigated four times as many Democrats as Republicans during his time as a prosecutor.

Wait, I thought the Republicans were the party of corruption. Sounds like four times as many democrats to be investigated means four times the corruption on the Dems side. :ohmy:

Sigh, Republicans, so disconnected from reality.

Yes, we are totaly disconnected from reality. And since I'm so far gone, would you please tell me what the Democratic platform is? The ideas your party wants to move forward, and how they would actually go about doing that?
 
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theblazer said:


Wait, I thought the Republicans were the party of corruption. Sounds like four times as many democrats to be investigated means four times the corruption on the Dems side. :ohmy:



um, logic? these investigations are in Texas.



Yes, we are totaly disconnected from reality. And since I'm so far gone, would you please tell me what the Democratic platform is? The ideas your party wants to move forward, and how they would actually go about doing that?


thinking that the Republicans are vessels of evil does not mean that you necessarily love Democrats. are the Dems lost in the woods?

yup.

but they also don't eat puppies for breakfast.
 
diamond said:
good one ms democrat:hug:
others may choose to live in their denial.

Pax is one of the only sober minded left leaners who have a sense of fair play.:up:
others choose to froth at the mouth, like pavlov dogs not realizing their error.

http://www.unification.net/ws/theme143.htm

db9



wow! sanctimonious, patronizing, and deluded -- and all in one post!

look, many of us despise DeLay for more than partisan reasons. me, i deplore his ruthless partisanship, his fusion of conservatism with corporate cronyism, his grotesque gerrymandering, his homophobia, his view of ethics as things to get around rather than enforce, and on and on.

no one, not even Mr. DeLay's strongest allies, think he's anything other than an ultra-partisan enforcer and is a main purveyor of nasty, personal politics that poisons both parties washignton. he's also given to gross hyperbole, and seems to think the federal government exists to function like superman to swoop into a personal family tragedy and prolong the "life" of an all-but-completely-dead woman in Flordia.

let's revisit those days:

I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, one thing God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo to elevate the visibility of what's going on in America. . . .This is exactly the kind of issue that's going on in America, that attacks against the conservative moment, against me and against many others. The point is, the other side has figured out how to win and to defeat the conservative movement, and that is to go after people personally, charge them with frivolous charges, link up with all these do-gooder organizations funded by George Soros, and then get the national media on their side. That whole syndicate that they have going on right now is for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to destroy the conservative movement. It is to destroy conservative leaders, and not just in elected office, but leading. I mean, Ed Feulner, of the Heritage Foundation today was under attack in the National Journal. This is a huge nationwide concerted effort to destroy everything we believe in. And you need to look at this, and what's going on and participate in fighting back.

"weak" and "baseless," anyone?

i think NBC is right that this is a "conspiracy" charge, and if you read the WaPo editorial yesterday, it might be very difficult to find him guilty on a criminal charge.

however, there is clearly a MASSIVE corruption problem coming from the Republicans in Washington. this, combined with their pandering big-spending policies (exposing them as conservative frauds), and with each day finding another ethical problem with the GOP leadership, the Dems just might come-back in 2006.

yet, if anyone can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it's all those democrats who's last names aren't "Clinton."
 
Let's not give me too much credit here. :wink:

All I've said is that I always get nervous when I see people convicted in the court of public opinion and it's something I'm striving to avoid personally. I personally strongly dislike DeLay and am not surprised about the indictment, but I still think that any opinions about DeLay are at this point just that--opinions.
 
Some new info.

Partisan Witchhunt? DeLay Grand Jury Foreman a Former Sherriff Who Praises DeLay
The central pillar of Tom DeLay’s defense is that Travis Country prosecutor Ronnie Earle is an “unabashed partisan,” and that he is being targeted because of his political success.

But Ronnie Earle didn’t issue the indictment against Tom DeLay. A grand jury did. And as it turns out, the jury foreman William Gibson is a former sheriff’s deputy who praises DeLay specifically for his “aggressiveness.” Via Billmon, we see that Gibson spoke out yesterday:

He did his duty and that bound him to look at Tom Delay as just another Texan accused of criminal conspiracy, [Gibson] said.

“I like his aggressiveness and everything, and I had nothing against the House majority man, but I felt that we had enough evidence, not only me, but the other grand jury members,” Gibson said.

The grand jury foreman also takes great exception to accusations that he and 11 other grand jury members followed the lead of Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle instead of following the evidence.

“It was not a rubber stamp deal. It was not an overnight deal. If we needed extra information, it was provided to us,” Gibson said. …

Gibson thinks there is enough evidence to convict Delay.

“We would not have handed down an indictment. We would have no-billed the man, if we didn’t feel there was sufficient evidence,” said Gibson.
 
But Ronnie Earle didn’t issue the indictment against Tom DeLay. A grand jury did.

I love these simplistic statements that sound so true, yet are totally misleading. Grand Jurys respond to the information provided by prosecutors. To suggest that Ronnie Earle had nothing to do with the indictment is simply false.
 
nbcrusader said:


I love these simplistic statements that sound so true, yet are totally misleading. Grand Jurys respond to the information provided by prosecutors. To suggest that Ronnie Earle had nothing to do with the indictment is simply false.



but it also shoots in the head notions of a witch hunt, no?
 
Irvine511 said:
but it also shoots in the head notions of a witch hunt, no?

No, Earle is just after justice

Coming Soon: The Ronnie Earle Movie

For the last two years, as he pursued the investigation that led to Wednesday's indictment of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, Travis County, Texas prosecutor Ronnie Earle has given a film crew "extraordinary access" to make a motion picture about his work on the case.

The resulting film is called The Big Buy, made by Texas filmmakers Mark Birnbaum and Jim Schermbeck. "Raymond Chandler meets Willie Nelson on the corner of Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue in The Big Buy, a Texas noir political detective story that chronicles what some are calling a 'bloodless coup with corporate cash,'" reads a description of the picture on Birnbaum's website, markbirnbaum.com. The film, according to the description, "follows maverick Austin DA Ronnie Earle's investigation into what really happened when corporate money joined forces with relentless political ambitions to help swing the pivotal 2002 Texas elections, cementing Republican control from Austin to Washington DC."
 
nbcrusader said:



yes, i saw that on Drudge too.

can't you just hear the wheels of the VRWC turning?

seriously -- these guys are *so* organized, it's almost admirable.

you don't think that a documentary about DeLay's brutal gerrymandering and redistricting in Texas in a naked attempt to make it more Republican (have you seen the maps these people drew? it's fun finding animal shapes in how they sliced and diced up liberal Austin) is entirely appropriate? knowing lots about the documentary world, i'm hardly surprised that little indie documentary makers saw a story and wanted to follow it. and i'm also not surprised that a Earle let them have access, though i'm rather certain we can debate what "extraordinary" access is -- and it sounds like a manufactured quote taken from out of context in order to create precisely this kind of Drudge-worthy headline that will then, if successful, be batted around the right wing blogosphere and talk shows, eventually picked up on by the MSM in their vain attempt to be hip and current, and then become somehow something for desperate DeLay defenders to point to as evidence that their man is part of a witch hunt sponsored by Hollywood liberals (believe me: Texas documentary filmmakers have nothing to do with Martin Sheen and Susan Sarandon). and then, incredulously, because of the media's desperation to be "fair and balanced" and to represent "all sides," they will give this equal weight and point to it as another viable option in terms of the reality of the situation.

it's garbage. sometimes, there aren't two equal sides to the story. there's the story, and then there's the spin. it's like calling ID an "alternative" to evolution. the two are not equal, but equating the two paints them as viable alaternatives in the minds of less discerning listeners, or those who want to be fooled.

(steps off soapbox, looks for some bottled water)
 
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nbcrusader said:
I wish we got a movie when the Dems gerrymanded California.. :angry:

Enjoy the water :up:



unless something happens, you'll probably only be able to see this movie at, say, South-by-Southwest or some other film festival that's only attended by Evian-drinking liberals. the filmmakers will probably lose money, too, since most independent films do.

it won't be at the multiplex in Akron, OH.

(nothing against Akron ...)
 
OOPs look like some more trouble for the Hammer

Grand Jury Indicts DeLay on New Charge
Oct 3, 6:38 PM (ET)

By APRIL CASTRO

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - A Texas grand jury indicted Rep. Tom DeLay on a new charge of money laundering Monday, less than a week after another grand jury leveled a conspiracy charge that forced DeLay to temporarily step down as House majority leader.

Both indictments accuse DeLay and two political associates of conspiring to get around a state ban on corporate campaign contributions by funneling the money through a political action committee to the Republican National Committee in Washington.

The RNC then sent back like amounts to distribute to Texas candidates in 2002, the indictment alleges.

The new indictment came hours after DeLay's attorneys filed a request to dismiss the case. That request argued that the conspiracy charge was based on a law that was not effective until 2003, the year after the alleged money transfers.

The judge who will preside in DeLay's case was out of the country on vacation and could not rule on the request. Other state district judges declined to rule on the request in his place, said Colleen Davis, a law clerk to Austin attorney Bill White, also represents DeLay.
 
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