Declaration of Independence Banned at Cali School because of references to God - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-25-2004, 07:30 PM   #1
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Declaration of Independence Banned at Cali School because of references to God

http://www.reuters.com/printerFriend...toryID=6911883

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."

----more, go read it for yourself ---
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Old 11-25-2004, 08:57 PM   #2
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What an wanker, world history includes a lot of religion, by failing to teach children religion it leaves them ignorant of the world, we should teach theology in the classroom objectively and have history classes with context.
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Old 11-26-2004, 06:02 AM   #3
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This is idiotic. If you take references to God out of history, I'm afraid you're going to have to skip the entire Middle Ages, and don't even discuss the rationalists because they weren't atheists. What kind of idiots are running these schools?
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Old 11-26-2004, 06:13 AM   #4
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This is stupid. Especially since the original didn't even include any references to God until some members of the Continental Congress asked that some be added. I think it only says 'divine providence' anyway, doesn't it?

Oh, and all the anti religion people might as well throw away all their money now if they're so offended by seeing God's name

and U2 fans too, toss out the records, especially HTDAAB!
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Old 11-26-2004, 06:52 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
This is idiotic. If you take references to God out of history, I'm afraid you're going to have to skip the entire Middle Ages, and don't even discuss the rationalists because they weren't atheists. What kind of idiots are running these schools?
the california school system is a big bloated joke.
Atheists really shoot themselves in the foot quite often with this sort of thing. Its very annoying.
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Old 11-26-2004, 07:01 AM   #6
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Also, religion, and not only one but all religions, are a part of HISTORY! This must be discussed, whether or not you believe in teh religion! No one is forcing anyone to believe any certain way just by showing them history! This is so lame!
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:16 AM   #7
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Originally posted by U2Kitten
Also, religion, and not only one but all religions, are a part of HISTORY! This must be discussed, whether or not you believe in teh religion! No one is forcing anyone to believe any certain way just by showing them history! This is so lame!
Absolutely. All religions are a part of someone's history, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, it's history!
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:40 AM   #8
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I am attentive and interested in how other faith systems work, and while I don't think we should exactly single out Christianity all the time, it gave us our country (oppressed Christians made a pilgrimidge to this country, unless history is a bunch of religious propaganda...) regardless of what the ACLU might tell you.

The Declaration of Independence is not a force feeding to accept Christianity, but it's definately inspired by it, and thanks to our faithless, ignorant society, anything with God in it has become controversial. As Verte said, if we took belief systems out of history, we wouldn't really have much history to refer to.

I don't think any Christians are trying to overthrow any religions out of Asia and trying to recreate history. If there are any, I find it hypocritical. Different beliefs created different societies. It's not like The Declaration of Independence is a death threat to any Americans today, and when we kick God out of the country, we might as well kick history out of it too.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:54 AM   #9
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While some are pointing at the conservative Christian "fanatics", they forget about the every growing ranks of separation of Christ and state militants....
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Old 11-26-2004, 11:15 AM   #10
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
While some are pointing at the conservative Christian "fanatics", they forget about the every growing ranks of separation of Christ and state militants....
I agree, and it's grossly unfair. Some people don't give a damn that some of these things--be it a rosary, a cross, a prayer inscription--mean something big time for someone and won't hurt anyone as it is not forced indoctrination.
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Old 11-26-2004, 11:21 AM   #11
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Old 11-26-2004, 11:28 AM   #12
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I learned more about religion when I was in a Catholic school with no restrictions than I did when I was in a public school. Fact of the matter remains that some of the members of the Continental Congress -- Ben Franklin among them -- believed more in scientific enlightenment than some deity. So be it. This is a little extreme since it's history. It's also history that the original Pledge of Allegiance never included a reference to God. And it's also a historical fact that Moses is represented in carvings at the Supreme Court and Congressional buildings in recognition for his work in history as a lawmaker. There is a line between history and intolerance and that line was crossed by California.
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Old 11-26-2004, 11:39 AM   #13
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Interesting Sharky. Of course Ben Franklin's faith wasn't threatened by modern issues of our society that seem to divide God and Science.
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Old 11-26-2004, 11:47 AM   #14
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There's a famous picture of Ben Franklin getting his grandson blessed by his favorite philosopher, Voltaire, the great French philosopher/historian. Voltaire was a big time skeptic about organized religion, but even his radical critics accused him of being a "bigot" because he believed in God. For the record I am a huge fan of Voltaire's. He did more for freedom of conscience than maybe anyone else who ever walked the planet, and put up with a bunch of real to do it, like exile and stuff. I have read "Candide" three times. I do not agree with the skepticism in the book, but man, I still think it's a masterpiece.
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Old 11-26-2004, 11:50 AM   #15
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There have always been skeptics, and science, while it can be a very good thing, often tries to replace God. I think we've all questioned God's existence at one time or another. Yet he's never questioned our existence.
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