Declaration of Independence Banned at Cali School because of references to God

[MadelynIris]

http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6911883

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."

----more, go read it for yourself ---

 

[A_Wanderer]

What an wanker, world history includes a lot of religion, by failing to teach children religion it leaves them ignorant of the world, we should teach theology in the classroom objectively and have history classes with context.

 

[verte76]

This is idiotic. If you take references to God out of history, I'm afraid you're going to have to skip the entire Middle Ages, and don't even discuss the rationalists because they weren't atheists. What kind of idiots are running these schools?

 

[U2Kitten]

This is stupid. Especially since the original didn't even include any references to God until some members of the Continental Congress asked that some be added. I think it only says 'divine providence' anyway, doesn't it?

Oh, and all the anti religion people might as well throw away all their money now if they're so offended by seeing God's name

and U2 fans too, toss out the records, especially HTDAAB!

 

[shooboxx]

This is idiotic. If you take references to God out of history, I'm afraid you're going to have to skip the entire Middle Ages, and don't even discuss the rationalists because they weren't atheists. What kind of idiots are running these schools?

the california school system is a big bloated joke.
Atheists really shoot themselves in the foot quite often with this sort of thing. Its very annoying.

 

[U2Kitten]

Also, religion, and not only one but all religions, are a part of HISTORY! This must be discussed, whether or not you believe in teh religion! No one is forcing anyone to believe any certain way just by showing them history! This is so lame!

 

[verte76]

Also, religion, and not only one but all religions, are a part of HISTORY! This must be discussed, whether or not you believe in teh religion! No one is forcing anyone to believe any certain way just by showing them history! This is so lame!

Absolutely. All religions are a part of someone's history, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, it's history!

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I am attentive and interested in how other faith systems work, and while I don't think we should exactly single out Christianity all the time, it gave us our country (oppressed Christians made a pilgrimidge to this country, unless history is a bunch of religious propaganda...) regardless of what the ACLU might tell you.

The Declaration of Independence is not a force feeding to accept Christianity, but it's definately inspired by it, and thanks to our faithless, ignorant society, anything with God in it has become controversial. As Verte said, if we took belief systems out of history, we wouldn't really have much history to refer to.

I don't think any Christians are trying to overthrow any religions out of Asia and trying to recreate history. If there are any, I find it hypocritical. Different beliefs created different societies. It's not like The Declaration of Independence is a death threat to any Americans today, and when we kick God out of the country, we might as well kick history out of it too.

 

[nbcrusader]

While some are pointing at the conservative Christian "fanatics", they forget about the every growing ranks of separation of Christ and state militants....

 

[verte76]

While some are pointing at the conservative Christian "fanatics", they forget about the every growing ranks of separation of Christ and state militants....

I agree, and it's grossly unfair. Some people don't give a damn that some of these things--be it a rosary, a cross, a prayer inscription--mean something big time for someone and won't hurt anyone as it is not forced indoctrination.

 

[Mark Freedman]

<Silent, extremely long scream>
I'm at a loss for words more and more every day.
</Silent, extremely long scream>

 

[sharky]

I learned more about religion when I was in a Catholic school with no restrictions than I did when I was in a public school. Fact of the matter remains that some of the members of the Continental Congress -- Ben Franklin among them -- believed more in scientific enlightenment than some deity. So be it. This is a little extreme since it's history. It's also history that the original Pledge of Allegiance never included a reference to God. And it's also a historical fact that Moses is represented in carvings at the Supreme Court and Congressional buildings in recognition for his work in history as a lawmaker. There is a line between history and intolerance and that line was crossed by California.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Interesting Sharky. Of course Ben Franklin's faith wasn't threatened by modern issues of our society that seem to divide God and Science.

 

[verte76]

There's a famous picture of Ben Franklin getting his grandson blessed by his favorite philosopher, Voltaire, the great French philosopher/historian. Voltaire was a big time skeptic about organized religion, but even his radical critics accused him of being a "bigot" because he believed in God. For the record I am a huge fan of Voltaire's. He did more for freedom of conscience than maybe anyone else who ever walked the planet, and put up with a bunch of real to do it, like exile and stuff. I have read "Candide" three times. I do not agree with the skepticism in the book, but man, I still think it's a masterpiece.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

There have always been skeptics, and science, while it can be a very good thing, often tries to replace God. I think we've all questioned God's existence at one time or another. Yet he's never questioned our existence.

 

[sharky]

But I think science and religion can work together. DNA is an amazing thing, but how did we get to the point where it all worked? How could everything work out the way it does on this Earth much less in the rest of the universe?

 

[verte76]

I don't know that any particular scientist is consciously out there trying to replace God; rather, society puts them on a pedestal. I mean, Jonas Salk was out to cure polio, not to get any kind of status or authority that didn't belong to him. I think we should we should all thank God for giving us someone with Dr. Salk's brains and conscience for working so hard to fight the horrible scourge of polio. We have a vaccine. Thank God I don't have to worry about the epidemics the way my own parents did when they were kids. My mother still remembers being kept inside when there was a polio epidemic in town.

 

[MadelynIris]

sometimes this PC stuff reads like this sign:

 

[MadelynIris]

I dunno - do you get some kind of committee together and determine what is 'appropriate literature' or not?

For example, Handel's Messiah - often referred to as a great Easter/Christmas choral work. Would we shut down the performance because of the subject matter?

http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/handel.html

I don't like it.

 

[MadelynIris]

woops, wrong thread.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

The Declaration of Independence is one of the most beautiful, expressive, and historically revolutionary pieces of literature to exist. You don't have to believe in God to love it, or even appreciate it. You can even deny that our country was founded on God all you want. I just don't understand how a difference in beliefs pisses so many people off.

 

[txbonoman]

They are going to beat this horse to death. OMG, this has been this way for years. So what if someone doesnt like it, this is america. Im so sick of people yelling " Your offensive to me yadda yadda yadda. Screw em. This really upsets me. People get a life.

 

[Scarletwine]

This is a hoax story.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

But I think science and religion can work together. DNA is an amazing thing, but how did we get to the point where it all worked? How could everything work out the way it does on this Earth much less in the rest of the universe?

I've actually been thinking this too. Well, not really science and religion, but God and science. By that I mean religion claimed that the earth was flat, not God. Religion has been proven wrong, but so has science. God and science can and should co-exist, and I honestly don't like taking sides in a God vs. Science debate as often as I do.

My problems with science are when we take out any facts or possibilities that God exists and then present a theory. That's what happened to evolution. I think the basic principles of it might be true, but coming from monkeys seems funny to me. If that's the case, why do monkeys still exist? Shouldn't they have "turned human" by now? I guess we'll never know until we allow there to be a possibility that God exists.

Personally, I want to live to see the most powerful telescopes, microscopes, technology, whatever we got. I just think like the Parkers - with great power comes great responsibility. Therefore, we should use science for good in the world. We should use it to help people, and we should also use it for discovering how this planet functions. None of this has to withdrawl God in any way.

 

[nbcrusader]

This is a hoax story.

It would be nice if it was. Too bad the separation militants are all too real.

Here is the law suit

See paragraph 40 of the complaint.

 

[Stonewall]

Principal Vlidmar should be fired immediately. She's an imbecile and does not belong, least of all in the educational system.

 

[Irvine511]

question for NBC: why are you using the phrase "Christ and State" and not "Church and State"? what's your angle here?

just curious.

sounds like this Christian teacher ought to get himself a good liberal trial lawyer, the kind that are bogging down our courts with frivilous lawsuits ...

 

[nbcrusader]

question for NBC: why are you using the phrase "Christ and State" and not "Church and State"? what's your angle here?

just curious.

Application of the concept of "separation of church and state" is far more often applied to Christian beliefs, while simultaneously ignoring other religious beliefs and symbols.

sounds like this Christian teacher ought to get himself a good liberal trial lawyer, the kind that are bogging down our courts with frivilous lawsuits ...

I would doubt that the teachers in this forum would consider the matter of selective curriculum review as "frivolous".

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Application of the concept of "separation of church and state" is far more often applied to Christian beliefs, while simultaneously ignoring other religious beliefs and symbols.

This is very true. I rarely hear anything that slams the Jews who still believe in God. Nor do I want to.

 

[BVS]

We have those that are trying too hard to force God into our governments and schools. We have those that are trying too hard to force God out of our governments and schools. Someone's pushing on this side, someone's pushing on the opposite side therefore no movement will occur and the preasure will eventually make the contents inside explode.