December 8, 1980 (Imagine that)

[Anu]

Imagine that

Imagine that Hiroshima was just the name of a city in Japan
Imagine that the World Trade Center was always a barter fair & free school
Imagine that polyester & polystyrene never got invented & that polyamory never dies
Imagine that those yellow ribbons were tied around the cowardly future of Tom DeLay
Imagine that Buddy Holly never died, and he was our most famous Texan
Imagine that giving teens condoms was never (& will never be) considered a crime
against morality
Imagine that Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes were gay lovers who donate part of their
salaries to fight AIDS
(& then imagine a world without AIDS, where sex is not considered sinful in any
consensual context)
Imagine that factions learned facts, facing the fact that fighting for peace is like fucking
for virginity
Imagine that Christians & Muslims finally understood that they're merely different
denominations of the same religion in love with the idea of one-true-god
Imagine that Christians who call for the kingdom stop shoppin' like it's the blingdom
they really want
Imagine that Bishop Romero never got shot by the death squads in El Salvador
Imagine that teens demanding $200,000 for coming-of-age parties donated that cash to
Katrina relief
Imagine that the first Browns stayed in Cleveland & they won the Super Bowl in 2001
Imagine that the X Box 360 was actually a sacred sex toy
Imagine that Martin & Malcolm lived & transformed that handshake into peaceful black
power
Imagine that the hunters who gave venison jerky to the troops included the message "Kill
Bambi, not Iraqis" in the care package sent overseas
Imagine that Hugo Chavez & Fidel Castro supported civil liberties as much as the
liberation theology of anti-imperialism
Imagine that Tupac Shakur was still alive & kicking the ass of hip hop hypocrisy
Imagine that Janis Joplin & Jim Morrison & Jimi Hendrix still party, put our records, &
live on an island that never was the site of a Reality TV show
Imagine that the person you loved & lost is standing behind you while read this, ready to
touch your shoulder at any moment
Imagine that the term collateral damage referred to the deflation of the global capitalist
oligarchy
Imagine that Bush never got elected, selected, or otherwise connected to the main vein of
control
Imagine that John Lennon never died

--Anu Bonobo
8 December 2005

 

[A_Wanderer]

Why we could reach Year Zero all over the world.

 

[AcrobatMan]

Imagine that Christians & Muslims finally

Sorry Anu...I am sick of this Christian and Muslim thing. You want those to co-exist peacefully. By definition, its not possible.

I think more than half of the world ( if these GUYS have not converted them from the last time I read my books) is neither Christian nor Muslim and are least bothered.

John Lenon said

"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... "

See the difference between what he said ..and what you are saying..

 

[A_Wanderer]

Frankly I would rather live in a world where freedom of thought still exists than one with no religion. Imagine is a nihilstic anthem if you think about it.

I am in favour of liberty, religious freedom, property ownership and things that cease to be when people are forced into submission for the greater good - be it peaceful coexistence or equality.

I second AcrobatMan in taking a stand against the Abrahamic religions holding the rest of the world to ransom.

Fuck Proselytism

 

[hiphop]

Thank you Anu - what a beautiful piece of poetry and thought.

This "Imagine that the person you loved & lost is standing behind you while read this, ready to touch your shoulder at any moment" has touched me personally. If we just could give back life to those who deserve to live it so full of passion.

@ A_Wanderer: you have saddened me just a little bit Why always put this on the discussion level? Always on a pro/ contra? Always on something vs. something other?

Imagine that all colours bleed into one.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Everything is discussion level.

Discuss.



Seriously though

I do not think that Lennon had any malicious intent with his political philosophy however there are those with similar ideas that caused a hell of a lot of suffering trying to make their idea of heaven come true.

I also think that the freedom that extends to people preaching their religion openly is mirrored by the freedom to say when they can shove it, freedom of criticism, not freedom from criticism.

 

[Dismantled]

"And no religion too...."

 

[tommyvill]

I really like John Lennon, but I find
"imagine" lyrics a little bit 'stodgy', if you know what I mean...in this song (at least to me) he has forgotten his poetical side, and these lyrics are much alike to a political essay...
You know, I' christian and I've got many muslim friends. So what?
They respect me for my strong faith and I respect 'em for their...
Others artificial division are bullshit and...made by devil
That said, John is great and we all wish he still was here....
Istant Karma Rocks!!!!
Ciao,
Tom

 

[A_Wanderer]

"And no religion too...."

Not at the expense of peoples freedom to practice whatever crazy shit their into, as long as it does not violate the rights of other individuals.

Faith is the surrendering of reason

 

[lady luck]

wonderful Anu.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[AcrobatMan]

religious freedom

But for some religions, it is in their religion to try to convert anyone not in their religion to their religion ( by peaceful or non-peaceful means). This will always lead to violence in the long run.

Sometimes I feel religions ( most of them anyway) are just like computer viruses - first they block the reasoning and rationality of the individual - then it looks for a way to propogate to any other individuals whose name is there in its addressbook. Why cant they keep the virus to themselves - but then that is not the definition of virus.

 

[financeguy]

Nice one. Good to have a commemoration thread that is INCLUSIVE around here for a change.

 

[yolland]

^ Snort.

I believe what Lennon had in mind was institutionalized religion and its pretensions to universalism, not spirituality and belief in the transcendent generally.

P.S. Jews are Abrahamic and we don't proselytize. Though we are, I suppose, "guilty" of looking after our own, whether religious or not.

 

[Irvine511]

I believe what Lennon had in mind was institutionalized religion and its pretensions to universalism, not spirituality and belief in the transcendent generally.

while i think that's how most people understand that line, and perhaps that was how he intended it, Lennon was an atheist.

 

[yolland]

Hmmm...well, I don't really care much about this, but as far as I know, he never explicitly stated that. As late as 1969, if not later, he and Yoko had involvement with the Hare Krishnas, hosting Swami Prabhupada at their home etc. Imagine was '71.

 

[yolland]

A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one.

Yes, I love it too. But how is this not also the suspension of reason? It sure sounds like faith in the unproven and unprovable to me. In fact, it sounds downright mystical.

 

[Irvine511]

A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one.

Yes, I love it too. But how is this not also the suspension of reason? It sure sounds like faith in the unproven and unprovable to me. In fact, it sounds downright mystical.

can we find mysticism in secular humanism?

 

[yolland]

I doubt that a universally acceptable answer to that could be worked out without getting into some pretty silly hair-splitting. My point is that this sentiment does not appear to embody the sort of hard-headed scientific rationalism that secular humanism supposedly constitutes a noble defense of, in the face of religious lunacy. According to some anyway.

Personally, I've never thought that belief in any sort of god is necessary for living a righteous life and having a consistent moral code. That's not the "point" of faith to me; nor is redemption, nor some Freudian need to return to my mother's breast or whatever. And religion-based ethical thinking can often be more rational in its process than certain secular versions. Belief in God does not require a suspension of either the intellect or the rational faculties; if it did, I'd be out of a job. There are, and always will be, lots of thoroughly irrational fruitcakes on both sides of the fence, and which ones are best able to influence others and project their power depends on contingencies.

 

[nbcrusader]

very well said yolland

 

[VertigoGal]

I always though Lennon's "Imagine" was incredibly simplistic...so cheesy that I can't even appreciate whatever intent was behind it because I start rolling my eyes halfway through. Why does everyone think he invented world peace, anyway?

Anyway Anu that's a nice piece but I can't help feeling it's a bit one-sided considering the events of the past century.

 

[Jamila]

I will always love John Lennon.

Thank you, Anu.

 

[financeguy]

The Island (Paul Brady)

They say the skies of Lebanon are burning
Those mighty cedars bleeding in the heat
They're showing pictures on the television
Women and children dying in the street
And we're still at it in our own place
Still trying to reach the future through the past
Still trying to carve tomorrow from a tombstone...
Chorus

But Hey! Don't listen to me!
This wasn't meant to be no sad song
We've heard too much of that before
Right now I only want to be here with you
Till the morning dew comes falling
I want to take you to the island
And trace your footprints in the sand
And in the evening when the sun goes down
We'll make love to the sound of the ocean

They're raising banners over by the markets
Whitewashing slogans on the shipyard walls
Witchdoctors praying for a mighty showdown
No way our holy flag is gonna fall
Up here we sacrifice our children
To feed the worn-out dreams of yesterday
And teach them dying will lead us into glory...

Repeat Chorus

Now I know us plain folks don't see all the story
And I know this peace and love's just copping out
And I guess these young boys dying in the ditches
Is just what being free is all about
And how this twisted wreckage down on main street
Will bring us all together in the end
And we'll go marching down the road to freedom...
Freedom

 

[Kieran McConville]

I heard a recent fun remix where somebody spliced together samples of W talking to compile a 'sample' of him performing 'Imagine'. It was oddly touching.

That said, I still won't pay to see him live.

 

[Golightly Grrl]

I will always love John Lennon.

Thank you, Anu.

Me, too.

Years ago, I volunteered at the Chicago Peace Museum. The museum had an event honoring the memory of John Lennon. Yoko Ono had donated John's acoustic guitar to the museum and it was going to be featured at this event. I was helping the staff set up when one of the staff members handed me John's guitar and said, "Would you mind holding this while I put the tablecloth on the table?"

Would I mind??

Truly one of the top moments in my life.

 

[U2Scot]

Imagine that you can preach Peace and fund terrorists at the same time

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/649397.stm

 

[ShellBeThere]

Imagine that we actually read that article, dated Feb 2000 (?), and see that there is an allegation by one guy that he noticed in an 'intelligence' file years ago something about Lennon supporting the IRA, and much in the way of rebuttal by someone who's researched the issue, lol!

That's been in the news lately, hasn't it? sorry for my ignorance!
This whole deal about Lennon's FBI files and how the Nixon administration was doing all they could to accuse him of stuff?
Anybody have better info on the claim being made above about Lennon?

anyway, cheers all!

 

[Jamila]

I still love John Lennon today.

Thank you again, Anu.

 

[verte76]

Thanks Anu.