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Old 12-09-2005, 03:23 PM   #16
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A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one.


Yes, I love it too. But how is this not also the suspension of reason? It sure sounds like faith in the unproven and unprovable to me. In fact, it sounds downright mystical.
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Old 12-09-2005, 03:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one.


Yes, I love it too. But how is this not also the suspension of reason? It sure sounds like faith in the unproven and unprovable to me. In fact, it sounds downright mystical.


can we find mysticism in secular humanism?
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Old 12-09-2005, 03:45 PM   #18
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I doubt that a universally acceptable answer to that could be worked out without getting into some pretty silly hair-splitting. My point is that this sentiment does not appear to embody the sort of hard-headed scientific rationalism that secular humanism supposedly constitutes a noble defense of, in the face of religious lunacy. According to some anyway.

Personally, I've never thought that belief in any sort of god is necessary for living a righteous life and having a consistent moral code. That's not the "point" of faith to me; nor is redemption, nor some Freudian need to return to my mother's breast or whatever. And religion-based ethical thinking can often be more rational in its process than certain secular versions. Belief in God does not require a suspension of either the intellect or the rational faculties; if it did, I'd be out of a job. There are, and always will be, lots of thoroughly irrational fruitcakes on both sides of the fence, and which ones are best able to influence others and project their power depends on contingencies.
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Old 12-09-2005, 05:40 PM   #19
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very well said yolland
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:08 PM   #20
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I always though Lennon's "Imagine" was incredibly simplistic...so cheesy that I can't even appreciate whatever intent was behind it because I start rolling my eyes halfway through. Why does everyone think he invented world peace, anyway?

Anyway Anu that's a nice piece but I can't help feeling it's a bit one-sided considering the events of the past century.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:11 PM   #21
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I will always love John Lennon.

Thank you, Anu.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:19 PM   #22
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The Island (Paul Brady)

They say the skies of Lebanon are burning
Those mighty cedars bleeding in the heat
They're showing pictures on the television
Women and children dying in the street
And we're still at it in our own place
Still trying to reach the future through the past
Still trying to carve tomorrow from a tombstone...
Chorus

But Hey! Don't listen to me!
This wasn't meant to be no sad song
We've heard too much of that before
Right now I only want to be here with you
Till the morning dew comes falling
I want to take you to the island
And trace your footprints in the sand
And in the evening when the sun goes down
We'll make love to the sound of the ocean

They're raising banners over by the markets
Whitewashing slogans on the shipyard walls
Witchdoctors praying for a mighty showdown
No way our holy flag is gonna fall
Up here we sacrifice our children
To feed the worn-out dreams of yesterday
And teach them dying will lead us into glory...

Repeat Chorus

Now I know us plain folks don't see all the story
And I know this peace and love's just copping out
And I guess these young boys dying in the ditches
Is just what being free is all about
And how this twisted wreckage down on main street
Will bring us all together in the end
And we'll go marching down the road to freedom...
Freedom
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Old 12-10-2005, 03:54 AM   #23
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I heard a recent fun remix where somebody spliced together samples of W talking to compile a 'sample' of him performing 'Imagine'. It was oddly touching.

That said, I still won't pay to see him live.
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Old 12-10-2005, 10:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
I will always love John Lennon.

Thank you, Anu.
Me, too.

Years ago, I volunteered at the Chicago Peace Museum. The museum had an event honoring the memory of John Lennon. Yoko Ono had donated John's acoustic guitar to the museum and it was going to be featured at this event. I was helping the staff set up when one of the staff members handed me John's guitar and said, "Would you mind holding this while I put the tablecloth on the table?"

Would I mind??

Truly one of the top moments in my life.
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:03 AM   #25
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Imagine that you can preach Peace and fund terrorists at the same time

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/649397.stm
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:41 AM   #26
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Imagine that we actually read that article, dated Feb 2000 (?), and see that there is an allegation by one guy that he noticed in an 'intelligence' file years ago something about Lennon supporting the IRA, and much in the way of rebuttal by someone who's researched the issue, lol!

That's been in the news lately, hasn't it? sorry for my ignorance!
This whole deal about Lennon's FBI files and how the Nixon administration was doing all they could to accuse him of stuff?
Anybody have better info on the claim being made above about Lennon?

anyway, cheers all!
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Old 12-10-2005, 03:19 PM   #27
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I still love John Lennon today.

Thank you again, Anu.
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Old 12-10-2005, 04:06 PM   #28
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Thanks Anu.
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