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Old 12-08-2005, 07:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I think it's reductionist and patronizing to explain someone's political views by who their parents were or are.
I don´t think so. A family, dad, mom, relatives with who you grow up, will define your moral values. Sure, you can change values yourself when you are an adult. I´m not meaning to be reductionist, just pointing out that the way you grow up shapes your future world view.

No doubt that families whose members "serve the country" may as well be totally opposed to war, since the fathers have seen all the inhumane cruelties of war, had to kill people, commit crimes, watch soldiers torture civilians and their best buddy got shot right in front of their eyes.

However, STING2 supports the war against Iraq and (according to his posts) still thinks that every single American intervention on foreign soil was just and noble. Well, if someone is that opinion, he also should be prepared to be criticised for it.
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:54 AM   #17
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And is there not legitimate room from criticism about ill-formed peace? We can post pictures of dead Iraqi babies for days but by the numbers I simply cannot see how more suffering was caused by deposing Saddam with military force

Internal revolution was not going to happen - the chance of that died following the Gulf War when the world stood by to slaughter. The attempt to orchestate a coup failed miserably and following Saddam only closed in his inner circle. There would not be change until he died and that would probably take quite a while.

Soft dictatorship was also an implausible situation as the regime excercised full control over the population with whatever means it could, be it the secret police or starvation. The mass graves are being dug up every damn day and the numbers keep pushing up into the higher hundreds of thousands, estimates are being given of over one million victims, a good share of those (the post 1991 ones) were the price of peace.

The dichotomy between an apparently brutally violent war with massive civilian casualties that are inflicted indiscrimiately and some sort of sustainable peace through containment seems flawed. Innocent people have died because of the decision that Bush, Blair, Howard etc. made, a significant burden of civilian death rests on their shoulders, but in the absence of deposing Saddam so many more people would have been killed, where does that burden lie? on the dictator himself or those that would have seen him continue the slaughter.
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:44 AM   #18
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:25 PM   #19
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God Bless The Men and Woman who fought in WWII Period.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:38 PM   #20
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The more I have learned about Pearl Harbor......
Well, let's just say that I have a different view then most.

I respect the effort that coutnless people have exerted over the years to give me the incredible standard of living I now have. I suppose my grattitude for that is eternal. I think everyone should know about Dec 7.

But they should know everything about it, too, not just that America was attacked by "the Japs".
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


I think that´s because STING2 grew up in a family whose members have been proud to serve the US Army (or Navy). To imply that he thinks war is sexy.. well, I think STING2 has never served in war (not sure however.. I also think U2Bama served in Iraq, but I forgot). So while he may be blinded by the inhumane propaganda of the US administration, while he may push for US interventions anywhere he believes it fits while babies are bombed by Bush, it is *kinda* natural that there is a certain affection for weapons and tactics, culminating in a distorted world view.
Have you read the faq/rules? Do you understand what it means to refrain from making personal remarks about other people in the forum?
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:18 PM   #22
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


I think that´s because STING2 grew up in a family whose members have been proud to serve the US Army (or Navy). To imply that he thinks war is sexy.. well, I think STING2 has never served in war (not sure however.. I also think U2Bama served in Iraq, but I forgot). So while he may be blinded by the inhumane propaganda of the US administration, while he may push for US interventions anywhere he believes it fits while babies are bombed by Bush, it is *kinda* natural that there is a certain affection for weapons and tactics, culminating in a distorted world view.


It's sad that this thread has turned into something else. Several members have posted some concrete thoughts/images on 12/7/1941. Thank you.

I'm breaking the rule here also by responding to this statement:

"while he may push for US interventions anywhere he believes it fits while babies are bombed by Bush"

I did not vote for Bush, but that statement justs irks of hyperbole.

Please post where President Bush has ordered the bombing of babies. War is hell, I agree, but where are the facts on Bush being a baby killer?



*I'm just a Libertarian fool*
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:36 PM   #23
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If you want to see pictures of dead babies, I'm sure you'll be able to find some for where Saddam bombed the Kurds in 1988 with mustard gas - his own people. That would be like the Prez bombing California

I think the US needs to stop being the "peace police" for all these other countries and begin focusing on their own people for once.
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:26 PM   #24
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Sting I tip my hat to you!

I do not know how you continue to keep your cool.
My only hope is that at some point in time there will be some kind of public response to the abuse you take by others in the forum.

Peace
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:17 AM   #25
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on the other side of the coin, i find it absolutely amazing that anyone can keep their cool when talking with sting2 at times.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:17 AM   #26
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personal bad remark against interferencer



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Old 12-09-2005, 01:33 AM   #27
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Well I wouldn't try to censor them, its much more a reflection upon the critic especially when they are repeat offenders.
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:08 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
repeat offenders.
Would lead one to believe there is a reason it continues.
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:16 AM   #29
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And that has more to do with the individual making the outrageous statements than the actions of the target (in most cases).
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
And that has more to do with the individual making the outrageous statements than the actions of the target (in most cases).
Outrageous statements have become as commonplace as salt on french fries. There are times when I see FYM as a collection of caricatures going through their ritual dance.

Too bad it has to include personal attacks.
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