Death & Religion

[VertigoGal]

If religious people truly know where they are going deep down, as they usually claim, why is death viewed as a bad thing? Why do we have threads dedicated to the victims of crimes, of wars, dead soliders? (and this is only hypothetical, I'm not that cold) Why do people cry at funerals? We're all gonna die, right?

And don't say that people cry only because they will miss that person until they meet them again in "Heaven" or wherever, because that wouldn't explain why people shake their heads and say "He/She died too young" and speak of death as if it's unfortunate to the person killed, not just those around him/her.

Is it possible many religious people aren't nearly as secure and completely confident in their beliefs as they'd have us think?

I've been wondering this for a while...if there's a Heaven then dying wouldn't be bad at all, y'know...

 

[deep]

see the movie

The Rapture (1991)

 

[BVS]

We're human and we're selfish. We want our loved ones by our sides.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think that it is that very fear of death that enforces belief ~ without the guarantee of eternal paradise or damnation many people would just go insane.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

If religious people truly know where they are going deep down, as they usually claim, why is death viewed as a bad thing? Why do we have threads dedicated to the victims of crimes, of wars, dead soliders? (and this is only hypothetical, I'm not that cold) Why do people cry at funerals? We're all gonna die, right?

We cry at funerals because we genuinely embraced their presence, and in my case, there is a sense of regret - a wish that I could've reached out more to that person to comfort them and pay them more attention. Dead soldiers and crime victims alike are those who are undeserving of the card they were dealt with. Most of all, because their lives were ended too soon.

And don't say that people cry only because they will miss that person until they meet them again in "Heaven" or wherever, because that wouldn't explain why people shake their heads and say "He/She died too young" and speak of death as if it's unfortunate to the person killed, not just those around him/her.

Is it possible many religious people aren't nearly as secure and completely confident in their beliefs as they'd have us think?

Death is a harsh reality, especially for the living to cope with, religious or not. We need comfort, no matter how steadfast we are in our beliefs.

I've been wondering this for a while...if there's a Heaven then dying wouldn't be bad at all, y'know...

It wouldn't. I love a quote by Martin Luther that goes something like "If people can't laugh in Heaven, I don't want to go there." Heaven is our destiny, and we believe it will have no pain and no hurt. It will be better than Utopia.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I think that it is that very fear of death that enforces belief ~ without the guarantee of eternal paradise or damnation many people would just go insane.

Cheers to our sanity!

 

[annj]

maybe this will answer some of your questions Vertigo girl

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2002/6/1/article_02.htm

 

[thrillme]

With Christianity and Judaism to some degree, death became part of the punishment, a curse for sinning against God. I'm told Jews don't really believe in an after life, (anyone correct me if I'm wrong), but in Christianity, death is just a temporary separation from loved ones. You're sad for that time of separation.

We have emotions, it's natural to feel sad when someone is gone, whether it's death, relocation away from home, that's part of being human, we miss our loved ones.

That's not a lack or insincerity about beliefs, it's more a human reaction. Now if you believe that person will not be in heaven, surely you'll be sad, but you couldn't force that person to believe. If there is no after life, then that's it, you'll never see that person again.

Whatever you believe, death will be a sad thing.

 

[nbcrusader]

but in Christianity, death is just a temporary separation from loved ones. You're sad for that time of separation.

Actually, death is only a time of sadness for those left behind. There are no tears or sorrow in heaven, only the joy of standing before God.

 

[Irvine511]

Actually, death is only a time of sadness for those left behind. There are no tears or sorrow in heaven, only the joy of standing before God.

what if you miss those you've left behind? what if you'd rather be with a beloved spouse, or child, or parent, than with God?

 

[VertigoGal]

Thanks for your replies guys...

I'm sorry to start such a basic "why are we here" thread, I'm not an expert at the ol' mathematically proving we don't exist or whatever...I'm just really confused.

Thanks annj, that was interesting to read, an interesting viewpoint at least.

I hear what a lot of you are saying, that people are sad when a loved one dies, because they will be separated from them till they theoretically meet up again in this "Heaven." That's what most Christians (and other religious people who believe in an afterlife) I've asked this have told me.

But this doesn't explain why death is seen as cruel to the actual victim, why it's sad when a 16 year old dies in a car wreck---don't they just get to skip some of the hardships of life and get straight to the Heaven bit? How does someone die "too young"? Aren't kids who die lucky? Even if they miss out on some of the joy of life, as well as the hardships, isn't Heaven sort of a utopia?

If there's such a Heaven, why are any of in the least bit scared of dying? Or at least, why do we want to live a long life? Basically, I think the fact that Christians wear seatbelts and go on diets shows that most people aren't as content with where they're going as they claim...

 

[VertigoGal]

what if you miss those you've left behind? what if you'd rather be with a beloved spouse, or child, or parent, than with God?

Yeah, exactly, I can't imagine a Heaven that exists in a sort of a conscious state...where we're still the same person with the same mind, just in another "place"...how could Heaven be painless and full of only joy, if you are essentially the same person? Wouldn't you miss your loved ones? Wouldn't you get bored of basking in the light of God day in and day out?

 

[thrillme]

Actually, death is only a time of sadness for those left behind. There are no tears or sorrow in heaven, only the joy of standing before God.

Ah thanks for clarifying that. That's what I meant, sometimes I think faster than I type.

 

[thrillme]

Thanks for your replies guys...

I'm sorry to start such a basic "why are we here" thread, I'm not an expert at the ol' mathematically proving we don't exist or whatever...I'm just really confused.

Thanks annj, that was interesting to read, an interesting viewpoint at least.

I hear what a lot of you are saying, that people are sad when a loved one dies, because they will be separated from them till they theoretically meet up again in this "Heaven." That's what most Christians (and other religious people who believe in an afterlife) I've asked this have told me.

But this doesn't explain why death is seen as cruel to the actual victim, why it's sad when a 16 year old dies in a car wreck---don't they just get to skip some of the hardships of life and get straight to the Heaven bit? How does someone die "too young"? Aren't kids who die lucky? Even if they miss out on some of the joy of life, as well as the hardships, isn't Heaven sort of a utopia?

If there's such a Heaven, why are any of in the least bit scared of dying? Or at least, why do we want to live a long life? Basically, I think the fact that Christians wear seatbelts and go on diets shows that most people aren't as content with where they're going as they claim...

Actually the desire to live forever, according the Bible, is ingrained in us. That was the intention. This could veer off into more deeper questions, deeper discussion, but it's nothing to do with lack of confidence in what Christians believe.

Also, many areas consider it a violation of law, to not use a seatbelt.

Bible also says the body is a temple, something to be taken care of, not to be abused. Eating a healthy diet is acceptable.

There are things in this life, that won't happen in Heaven, so perhaps when people say someone was too young, it's that they didn't experience certain things, good things in this life, love, friendship...seeing a certain band live.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying this life being a Christian, it's okay, but at the same time, you realise it could all end.

Guess it depends on the religion though.

 

[nbcrusader]

what if you miss those you've left behind? what if you'd rather be with a beloved spouse, or child, or parent, than with God?

Think of it as a scale. You'd rather be with friends instead of strangers. You'd rather be with loved ones instead of friends.

I would suggest that the joy of being in the Lord's presense would surpass any notion of missing those left behind.

I acknowledge that it is difficult to grasp while on earth (especially the "won't you get bored after a while" questions). But that is the glory of heaven - far beyond what we can comprehend here on earth.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

Agreed NBC. I would posit that God is far beyond what we comprehend and that being in His presence is hardly like being in a church for a billion years. And from what I understand of the Bible, it appears that we are to be much more spirit-oriented in heaven that we are here. Just a few thoughts.

 

[Irvine511]

Think of it as a scale. You'd rather be with friends instead of strangers. You'd rather be with loved ones instead of friends.

I would suggest that the joy of being in the Lord's presense would surpass any notion of missing those left behind.

I acknowledge that it is difficult to grasp while on earth (especially the "won't you get bored after a while" questions). But that is the glory of heaven - far beyond what we can comprehend here on earth.

fair enough.

this is where logic ends and faith begins.

and where are the 70 virgins?

 

[nbcrusader]

That is a tempting way to describe heaven: think of the best of our carnal delights and magnify it in the afterlife.

Generally, I am wary of specific descriptions of heaven since there are only a few descriptions found in Scripture.

 

[Irvine511]

That is a tempting way to describe heaven: think of the best of our carnal delights and magnify it in the afterlife.

Generally, I am wary of specific descriptions of heaven since there are only a few descriptions found in Scripture.

so it's like an eternal orgasm?

no wonder christianity sells so well.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Just a quick point, Irv - I don't think it "sells well."

If people were in it strictly to sell religion, don't you think it would be much more politically correct?

 

[Irvine511]

are you kidding? what religion sells better than Christianity?

it offers a self-referential rule book, an all-knowing parent who will always love you, and life after death.

and for those who need people to hate in order to feel better about themselves and solidify their identity, some strands of the religion offer that as well.

what more could you ask for when selecting a religion?

 

[A_Wanderer]

One that doesn't get you killed in many parts of the world perhaps?

 

[Irvine511]

One that doesn't get you killed in many parts of the world perhaps?

Christianity? check.

doesn't get you killed in most parts of the world.

 

[deep]

so it's like an eternal orgasm?

no wonder christianity sells so well.

no that's heroin

it sells well, too.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

are you kidding? what religion sells better than Christianity?

it offers a self-referential rule book, an all-knowing parent who will always love you, and life after death.

and for those who need people to hate in order to feel better about themselves and solidify their identity, some strands of the religion offer that as well.

what more could you ask for when selecting a religion?

Seriously though, if the belief was for sale, I would think that we would try our hardest to reinvent it every week. If it was "for sale", it wouldn't really have much to do with a rule book. Seems like a Sony DVD player is the opposite, where you don't read the instructions, but if you tweak the cords long enough, they connect.

I guess if I really wanted to be ultra-greedy, here's what I would ask for in a religion: how can I have as many wives as I want, get a bunch of virgins in heaven, and get away with killing people? I guess radical Islam is the way to go.