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Old 01-09-2002, 04:01 PM   #16
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Hello,
Im so sorry to hear about your partner pasing away.

Death scares me, I cant say its fair or not fair because its life, we cant prevent it, sooner or later it will happen, the only thing i find unfair about it is how quickly someone you love can pass away so young, if there is a God out there I cant understand why he takes such young and innocent lives, really though can anyone really understand death,its one of those things, we can all guess what its like but nobody really knows...

Again im very sorry to hear about your unfortunate news even though ive never spoken to you before, please come and post and tell us how you are doing
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Old 01-12-2002, 07:04 AM   #17
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Thank you everyone for your sympathies and your prayers,they were much needed and they are certainly cherished. I am sorry for not responding sooner, but as you can imagine I did have funeral arrangements and other family business to take care of. Of course, I haven't altogether finished with that, but I'm trying to carry on with Life as normal, but with a slight difference; if anything is certain, Life does go on. I don't say it 'must' go on, but it certainly does.

I thank you all who commented, and to those who didn't want to in consideration of 'offending' or not being appropriate, I DID request it because I did want to know what you thought about, that was the way I thought I could get myself together. I am quite weak in the sense that I only respond to ideas and, hopefully, logic, I try to approach this thing called 'mourning' with an approach based on ideas. It may not be the best way to do it but its all I've got.

Melon;
Thank you so much for your wisdom, as always it was appreciated. You were right, of course, about everything; expecially in thinking that I would appreciate a post like yours and find it comforting - it certainly worked and I hope I can reciprocate if the Time, God forbid, is ever needed.

The truth is I haven't really felt the same about concepts such as Life and Death since she got ill back in August (U2 made it slightly more bearable, we went to see them here in London for what was meant to be the last time for her)and wondered how on Earth it was going to be like. The fact is, as you pointed out, matters such as Life and Death are so frail, so complex that they are hard to define or approach, or even feel anything about. I don't presume to know anything, all I know is what I feel, and the feelings aren't very constructive. Though I know I shouldn't, I am angry. Its not a constructive emotion as it is just an anger directed at anything that is responsible for this, yes including God. Though I don't deny his existence, I am not sure about Heaven. Though I always claimed to not believe in Heaven, I always thought there was a place, but now I am not so sure; I don't know what I believe in.

Anyway, thank you very much to all of you, and now, in an attempt to carry on with Life, I'm going to post a few replies on all those threads that have been pissing me off.

Ant.

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Old 01-12-2002, 07:49 AM   #18
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Hey Ant, I was just wondering about heaven, too, so I created this thread http://forum.interference.com/u2feed...ML/000930.html just recently. I guess you missed it, then, since you've been away, and I hope it helps you somehow? As for me, sometimes I get torn between two opinions: one, is I really look forward to leaving this life and finding out what comes next. Like I said before, it looks like an adventure and I have absolutely no regrets about my life. The only thing that scares me about death is the physical pain that comes with it, therefore, I'd rather die in my sleep cos I'm a physical coward ! On the other hand, I also think about whether I've fulfilled what God wanted me to do with my life. I mean, when I'm near death, do I fight it because I still have much to do in life, or do I resign to it?? I guess I'll only know when it happens.

Those are my thoughts and I feel bad about talking all about me while you are grieving but you said it's what you wanted so here it is . Take care, Ant.

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Old 01-12-2002, 01:47 PM   #19
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Anthony, I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't have anything to say really except I firmly believe in an afterlife...
God bless, and take care of yourself please..


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In the night of death, hope sees a star and listening love can hear the rustle of a wing.
~Robert Ingersoll
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Old 01-12-2002, 02:17 PM   #20
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Anthony, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I can relate as well. I, too, am grieving the loss of my best friend of more than 20 years. He was a deeply spiritual gay man who in many ways was the love of my life, having never experienced the deep connection with a lover than I had with him as a friend. He was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer on October 2, given 5-10 months to live, but died just 29 days later, peacefully, easily, painlessly. That part was a blessing.

But the grief is nearly unbearable at times. My own spiritual beliefs differ quite considerably from most of the people on this forum. I follow an esoteric spiritual path and I believe that the purpose of life and death is for soul to rediscover itself (a process known as Self-Realization) and ultimately merge back into its source (the Divine) much like the drop merges into the ocean. So while I miss my friend terribly, I am more or less at peace with the process itself. He had no fear and no anger, and viewed it as the most important spiritual experience.

So it's great for him but it sucks for me. Actually, sometimes I'm quite jealous of him, that he is free of the limitations that still plague me. Yet, it is for all of us to experience as well, when our own hour comes, and come it will.

Anger is a natural response to such a sudden loss, and I screamed and yelled at God in the car on the 5-hour drive to Denver in November to see U2, just a week after my friend died. I figure if there is a God It is big enough to handle my anger. But each day, I feel more at peace, and ultimately I do believe in the perfection of the cycle of life and death, and all that goes along with that.

I do hope that in time peace will be yours completely.



[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 01-16-2002).]
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Old 01-12-2002, 08:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
Melon;
Thank you so much for your wisdom, as always it was appreciated. You were right, of course, about everything; expecially in thinking that I would appreciate a post like yours and find it comforting - it certainly worked and I hope I can reciprocate if the Time, God forbid, is ever needed.
I am quite happy that I was able to help.

Quote:
I don't presume to know anything, all I know is what I feel, and the feelings aren't very constructive. Though I know I shouldn't, I am angry. Its not a constructive emotion as it is just an anger directed at anything that is responsible for this, yes including God. Though I don't deny his existence, I am not sure about Heaven. Though I always claimed to not believe in Heaven, I always thought there was a place, but now I am not so sure; I don't know what I believe in.
You surely aren't alone in your feelings. As "rational" as we'd all like to be in all occasions, "irrationality" is just as much a part of our design. As I'd like to believe that God is the ultimate rational and loving Being, I think He'll understand you being angry and irrational for a little while.

What is heaven? No one knows for sure. Honestly, most of our conceptions of heaven and hell have been formed by Dante's "Divine Comedy" in the 1400s. However, I'd like to think that heaven is whatever would make us truly happy. For some, I think that is true union with God (similar to the Buddhist concept). For others, I think it might simply be a utopian version of Earth. But, perhaps, it could be anything.

I don't know how much any of this helps, but the reason why I believe in heaven, hell, and, yes, purgatory is not because of the Bible or even tradition, but, in my dreams, I think I've seen these places. Of course, I cannot prove it whatsoever, but, if my dreams are correct, heaven truly exists and is a fantastical place beyond imagination.

Anyway, hang in there. Take time out for yourself and don't fear irrationality and anger. I think, in the course of what has happened, what you're feeling is natural.

Take care...

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 01-13-2002, 03:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
Anthony, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I can relate as well. I, too, am grieving the loss of my best friend of more than 20 years. He was a deeply spiritual gay man who in many ways was the love of my life, having never experienced the deep connection with a lover than I had with him as a friend. He was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer on October 2, given 5-10 months to live, but died just 29 days later, peacefully, easily, painlessly. That part was a blessing.

Anger is a natural response to such a sudden loss, and I screamed and yelled at God in the car on the 5-hour drive to Denver in November to see U2, just a week after my friend died. I figure if there is a God It is big enough to handle my anger. But each day, I feel more at peace, and ultimately I do believe in the perfection of the cycle of life and death, and all that goes along with that.


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Old 01-13-2002, 03:36 AM   #23
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Old 01-15-2002, 07:20 PM   #24
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Thank you foray, it was a useful thread which I had not read previously, as I had been away for a while as you can imagine.

Ant.
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Old 01-21-2002, 05:05 PM   #25
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Anthony,

I just now saw your post, and I wanted to join everyone in saying that I am sorry for your loss.

Be sure to lean on us and U2 if you need it. We're always here to listen.

With deepest sympathy,
Jennifer
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Old 01-21-2002, 10:41 PM   #26
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Hi Anthony,
First, a big hug because you need it.
It will be nine years next month since my husband's father and sister were killed in a car crash. I still think of them almost every day. While my situation is in no way like yours, I did learn some valuable things from my experience. I learned that we can never, ever ask God why. Things happen and we more than likely will never know why. There are reasons for what happens, but to question God is futile. Trust Him. I also learned that time passes and is a vital part of your healing. You WILL heal, but allow yourself as much time as you need. All of 1993 is a blur to me, but that time was spent recovering and healing. Let time work for you. Every day will take you farther from the pain. The third thing I learned is that you can never go back to the way you were before. You will always be changed by this experience, so trying to make yourself "normal" again is pointless. Learn from it; make it part of you.

I hope I didn't ramble, and I hope I made sense.

Take care of yourself, Anthony, and let others take care of you. You need to be taken care of, and those who love you need to take care of you.
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Old 01-22-2002, 07:38 PM   #27
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Some years ago I lived in San Francisco for the summer with my grandmother. There I met two men, Josh and Pawel, who were gay lovers who both had HIV. I stayed with them for a week and had the time of my life. It opened my eyes VERY wide though (I was 15 at the time). We went to AIDS clinics with people holding signs saying things like "AIDS is God's way of killing (insert derrogative term here)". I remained very close to Josh.
Last December, Josh became quite ill and he never really recovered. In early February, he had been in the hospital for 4 weeks with a t-cell count of 30% of what you or I would have. Taking the advice of a friend I went out and saw him. He died 3 days later.
I couldn't believe the pain I was feeling. I felt alone, that nobody could understand it. I had never had anybody die before. I cried for a long time, and sometimes I still do.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have a small understanding of where you are. I extend my condolences and wish you better times to come. If you need anything, feel free to post again, we're all here for you.

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Old 01-23-2002, 11:47 AM   #28
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Beautiful story, Lilly. I, too, have lost a few friends to AIDS. Can you imagine protesting outside a cancer clinic with signs like that? Such ignorance and cruelty in the name of God. Anyway, I'm very sorry for your loss.


[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 01:20 PM   #29
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erased

[This message has been edited by foray (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 11:02 PM   #30
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Anthony, very sorry to hear of your loss...
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