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Old 08-17-2005, 04:26 PM   #16
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

But would not the same response apply to someone who send this letter as their understanding of Scripture?
I would never take this as someone's understanding of the scripture, it's smothered with sarcasm in order to prove a point. If anything I would say this person has a much better understanding of scripture because they did take the surrounding context of her initial argument and show how flawed it is.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
But would not the same response apply to someone who send this letter as their understanding of Scripture?
Why would it be "bigoted" to arbitrarily (and facetiously) highlight a few of the Torah's many neglected provisions as a pointed commentary on the arbitrariness of Dr. Laura's own appeal to Lev 18:22 (or even better, 20:13) as a clear-cut moral imperative? The point is to expose the bigotry underlying her disingenuous interpretive "philosophy"--not to locate that bigotry in Scripture, nor in her belief that it is holy.


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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Couldn't you just say Dr. Laura's understanding of things is just different than your own, instead of calling it bigotry?
Can I quote you on this next time you get riled up when other posters express their "different understanding of things" regarding conservative Christianity? Actually, I usually agree with you in those instances, and partly for that reason, I'm kind of dumbfounded that you'd adopt such a stance here...

Giving people the benefit of the doubt is always a wise choice, yes--but that doesn't mean suspending your judgment and sticking your head in the sand. Bigotry absolutely matters and should absolutely be resisted, even if it means the occasional overzealous misstep. You just admit to it and move on.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:18 PM   #18
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Can I quote you on this next time you get riled up when other posters express their "different understanding of things" regarding conservative Christianity? Actually, I usually agree with you in those instances, and partly for that reason, I'm kind of dumbfounded that you'd adopt such a stance here...
My response was to FizzingWhizzbees when showing the parallel between the letter (sarcastic, yet not showing understanding) and the reaction to Dr. Laura. I guess the mirror image of what was previously argued got lost.

And, I would suggest that one individuals own ability to misinterpret Scripture does not validate the argument that someone else has misinterpreted Scripture.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Taking Scripture out of context is painfully evident.
Isn't taking scripture out of context precisely what the author of the letter is criticising Dr Laura for? She takes a few words portraying homosexuality as an abomination and completely ignores the context in which they occur.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


My response was to FizzingWhizzbees when showing the parallel between the letter (sarcastic, yet not showing understanding) and the reaction to Dr. Laura. I guess the mirror image of what was previously argued got lost.

And, I would suggest that one individuals own ability to misinterpret Scripture does not validate the argument that someone else has misinterpreted Scripture.
Be careful, sounds like someone's claiming they know the true interpretation and are dismissing everyone else's.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I am not suggesting ignorance is an excuse.

But would not the same response apply to someone who send this letter as their understanding of Scripture?
Do you really think the person who wrote that letter doesn't understand scripture? I think that person understands it inside, outside, backwards, and forwards and is able to illustrate both the hypocrisy of a Dr. Laura and others who believe everything in the Bible is the absolute truth without any interpretation -- except when it applies to something they do or don't mind. To bad you merely dismiss it as ignorant instead of contemplating the very real truths it brings to light.

The person who wrote this isn't some stupid backwoods hick, but a very, very smart cookie. I'll bet you that.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:40 PM   #22
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Originally posted by U2democrat


Which episode? I don't remember that...
I believe it was one of the early episodes, perhaps from the first season. You need to see that episode -- I can't quite recall the specifics, but I remember Martin Sheen doing that list of items. It was great!
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:35 PM   #23
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Be careful, sounds like someone's claiming they know the true interpretation and are dismissing everyone else's.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:25 PM   #24
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


My bad I read you post wrong. I need to start re-reading before I post.


Only one is claiming understanding of the scripture, Dr. Laura. She used the one piece of scripture to prove HER belief. The letter never claimed understanding of the scripture, no one can take that sarcasm seriously. But does he have to show 100% understanding of the scripture in order to show that her use of the scripture is wrong? He showed the context of the scripture and showed how none of the other "laws" make sense today, therefore showing how we can't use one without the others. Now that may not show enough understanding of the scripture for you but it shows enough understanding to prove his argument.
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:01 AM   #25
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Which episode? I don't remember that...
Sorry, I didn't see this last night. But it's episode three of season two - "The Midterms."
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:23 AM   #26
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The writer of the letter obviously does not have a complete understanding of scripture. Christ's death fulfilled and negated the ceremonial and civil laws that were establised in the Old Testament. They no longer apply to us today. The purpose of Christ's death was to free us from those laws which is one of the main points of the New Testament.
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
The writer of the letter obviously does not have a complete understanding of scripture. Christ's death fulfilled and negated the ceremonial and civil laws that were establised in the Old Testament. They no longer apply to us today. The purpose of Christ's death was to free us from those laws which is one of the main points of the New Testament.
Dr. Laura is...

*drum roll please*

...an Orthodox Jew. So, clearly, it does count to her.

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Old 08-18-2005, 07:33 AM   #28
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Ok. I didn't know she was jewish.
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Old 08-18-2005, 10:42 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
The writer of the letter obviously does not have a complete understanding of scripture. Christ's death fulfilled and negated the ceremonial and civil laws that were establised in the Old Testament. They no longer apply to us today. The purpose of Christ's death was to free us from those laws which is one of the main points of the New Testament.


well, as mentioned, your point only applies to Christians.

but isn't the point of the letter to demonstrate, via satire, the same lack-of-understanding of Scripture that Dr. Laura has when she uses Leveticus to condemn homosexuality? the whole, "using the master's tools to tear down the master's house" thing?
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:26 PM   #30
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Dr. Laura is no longer a practicing Jew. She converted to Judaism in 1996, to Orthodoxy in 1998, then announced on her show in 2003 that she would no longer be practicing Judaism at all.

This didn't, of course, change her position on homosexuality one iota --not that anyone expected it to.

This story is from the archives of one of the largest Jewish dailies, the Forward:

Quote:
Dr. Laura Loses Her Religion
By Lisa Keys
August 15, 2003


With 12 million Americans tuning in daily, controversial syndicated radio-show host Laura Schlessinger — known to all as "Dr. Laura" — is arguably the best-known Orthodox Jew in the United States.

Rather, she was.

In a shocking if little-noticed revelation, Schlessinger — who very publicly converted to Judaism five years ago — opened "The Dr. Laura Schlessinger Program" on August 5 with the confession that she will no longer practice Judaism. Although Schlessinger said she still "considers" herself Jewish, "My identifying with this entity and my fulfilling the rituals, etc., of the entity — that has ended."

Syndicated nationally since 1994, Schlessinger has won over listeners with her hard-edged advice and razor-sharp tongue. Yet her brash style, not to mention her espousal of a strict "moral health" code — including controversial condemnations of homosexuality as "a biological error" — put her at odds with wide swaths of the Jewish community. Many found her moralist, black-and-white, you're-with-me-or- against-me stance to be more representative of Evangelical Christians than of Jews, who were often among her most outspoken critics.

Schlessinger began her August 5 program by noting that, prior to each broadcast, she spends an hour reading faxes from fans and listeners. "By and large the faxes from Christians have been very loving, very supportive," she said. "From my own religion, I have either gotten nothing, which is 99% of it, or two of the nastiest letters I have gotten in a long time. I guess that's my point — I don't get much back. Not much warmth coming back."
Well, yes, when you first make a public spectacle of your conversion, then use your fame as a platform for preaching your nonexistent halakhic expertise to the masses in a caustic and belligerent fashion, no one is going to admire your Menschlikhkeit or embrace you as a ba'al teshuva.

Quote:
Schlessinger even hinted at a possible turn to Christianity — a move that, radio insiders say, would elevate her career far beyond the 300 stations that currently syndicate her show. "I have envied all my Christian friends who really, universally, deeply feel loved by God," she said. "They use the name Jesus when they refer to God... that was a mystery, being connected to God." In her 25 years on radio, Schlessinger said she was moved "time and time again" by listeners who wrote and described that they had "joined a church, felt loved by God and that was my anchor."
I am sincerely sorry she didn't find a meaningful relationship with God at whatever shul she attended...but again, you reap what you sow.

Quote:
"Was Laura naive to think, 'gosh, I'll be the queen of the Jews'? Yes, she was naive," said [conservative Jewish talk-show host] Michael Medved. "Part of that comes from not growing up in the Jewish community. It's so rare to find a celebrity embrace of Jewish religiosity of any kind, I can see why Laura would think her very public embrace would have led to a more enthusiastic reaction."

Yet last week's revelation was far from the first time Schlessinger has been wracked with religious doubts. Lacking a religious background, she has spent a lifetime searching for that missing something, and "each thing I tried left me feeling empty," she told Philadelphia's Inside magazine in 1998. Having already undergone a Conservative conversion in 1997, after a debacle with the Jewish Federation of Greater Dallas — a now-legendary affair in which she allegedly rejected three hotel suites, wouldn't ride in taxis and offended the entire audience at a $500 plate fundraiser — Schlessinger was tempted to give up on Judaism completely, but decided to undergo an Orthodox conversion instead.

"A large part of me wanted to make a statement after that experience, to stand even taller about Jewish values," she told the Jewish Telegraphic Agency in 2001. "Besides, if you don't have an Orthodox conversion, you can't get buried in Israel. I want to be close to ground zero."

Quote:
"It seems incredible that she would invoke such shallow arguments," said Shmuley Boteach, who was en route to an appearance on the titillating syndicated television show "Blind Date." "I never got great applause for my work from the Jewish community — but my people are my people, whether they love or hate me."
I find this all quite entertaining, which is why I posted it--but really, the precise religious background of Dr. Laura and whoever wrote that response is irrelevant anyway. She certainly did not understand herself to be speaking only to Jews when she made her comments on homosexuality, nor did her many Christian fans interpret it that way.
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