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Old 07-23-2005, 10:25 AM   #1
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Dean Urges Dems to Court Pro-Life Voters

By DEVLIN BARRETT
Associated Press Writer

July 22, 2005, 10:02 PM EDT

WASHINGTON -- Democrats need to reach out to voters who oppose abortion rights and promote candidates who share that view, the head of the party said Friday.

Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, told a group of college Democrats that their party has to change its approach in the debate over abortion.

"I think we need to talk about this issue differently," said Dean. "The Republicans have painted us as a pro-abortion party. I don't know anybody in America who is pro-abortion."

Dean's approach echoed similar arguments advanced in recent months by former President Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y.

"We do have to have a big tent. I do think we need to welcome pro-life Democrats into this party," said Dean.

Still, he added, "I think that we must be absolutely firm in being the party of individual freedom and personal freedom, which means that in the end the government doesn't get to decide, we do."

The effort to attract anti-abortion voters comes as Senate Democrats are preparing for confirmation hearings on Supreme Court nominee John Roberts. Roberts' views on abortion are already being intensely scrutinized.

Dean did not mention the looming confirmation hearings. He discussed the abortion debate after a student questioned why the party was supporting Bob Casey Jr., a Pennsylvania Democrat challenging incumbent Republican Sen. Rick Santorum.

The chairman tried to draw a distinction between Casey and Santorum, even though both men oppose abortion rights.

"You have to respect people's positions of conscience," said Dean. "I think Bob Casey's position is a position of conscience."

Dean, a former Planned Parenthood board member, said the difference between his party and Republicans is that "we believe a woman has a right to make up their own mind and they believe (House Majority Leader) Tom DeLay should make it up and Rick Santorum should make it up for them."

John Brabender, a consultant to Santorum's re-election campaign, said Dean's distinctions were meaningless. "It makes absolutely no sense for Howard Dean to attack Rick Santorum unless he's also attacking Bobby Casey," he said.

DeLay spokesman Kevin Madden said, "Howard Dean's rants are a perfect example of why the American people have lost faith in the national Democratic party."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...orld-headlines
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Old 07-23-2005, 10:29 AM   #2
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80s,


Great news,

the Dems truely have a "big tent"

you can get the hell away from W and his class warfare support of CEOs and Corporations agaist decent working peolpe like yourself.
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Old 07-23-2005, 10:32 AM   #3
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I'm amused by the GOP tactics lately: a near constant reinforcement that Howard Dean "rants" and "the American people have lost faith in the Democratic Party." Dean could say that the "sky is blue" and the GOP would say the same things.

Maybe the Democratic Party needs to learn some repetitive mantras too, because, statistically speaking, if you say it over and over enough, people will eventually believe it, no matter how true or untrue it is.

Melon
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Old 07-23-2005, 10:45 AM   #4
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Originally posted by deep
80s,


Great news,

the Dems truely have a "big tent"

you can get the hell away from W and his class warfare support of CEOs and Corporations agaist decent working peolpe like yourself.
From what Hilary said, I'm not so sure about that.

She made it sound like the prolifers the Dems would be welcoming are the ones who are personally against abortion, but want it to be legal.

Politically, that's as useless as a screen door on a submarine.
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Old 07-23-2005, 10:49 AM   #5
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Politically, that's as useless as a screen door on a submarine.
Except the idea is that you can encourage more "pro-life" activities besides banning abortion.

After all, a lot of people think the GOP's idea of "pro-life" is really just "pro-fetus," but once you're born, you can plain fuck off.

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Old 07-23-2005, 10:53 AM   #6
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Except the idea is that you can encourage more "pro-life" activities besides banning abortion.
The main goal of most prolifers is the overturning of Roe V. Wade. If a "prolife" caandidate doesn't support that, most prolifers will consider his "personal" views irrelevant.

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After all, a lot of people think the GOP's idea of "pro-life" is really just "pro-fetus," but once you're born, you can plain fuck off.

Melon
Yes, I've heard a few here say that - not you, but others.
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Old 07-23-2005, 10:57 AM   #7
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest




She made it sound like the prolifers the Dems would be welcoming are the ones who are personally against abortion, but want it to be legal.


Would you rather live in a society where adultery was illegal and had a 40 % occurrence?

or

A society where adultery was not against the law and had a 3% occurrence?
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Old 07-23-2005, 12:55 PM   #8
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Would you rather live in a society where adultery was illegal and had a 40 % occurrence?

or

A society where adultery was not against the law and had a 3% occurrence?
40% occurrence? Huh? As in, 40% of all pregnancies terminate in abortion?

Where did you get that figure? Why in the world would you think that overturning Roe v. Wade would cause such a high abortion rate?
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Old 07-23-2005, 01:07 PM   #9
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
40% occurrence? Huh? As in, 40% of all pregnancies terminate in abortion?

Where did you get that figure? Why in the world would you think that overturning Roe v. Wade would cause such a high abortion rate?
I think he's talking in hypotheticals.

If you could convince people not to have abortions, while still keeping it legal, would you prefer it to it being illegal, but women still having them at the same rate? The fact is that abortions occurred long before Roe v. Wade, and women would likely continue to have them illegally like before.

So is it about the legality or the abortions? That's the question.

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Old 07-23-2005, 01:13 PM   #10
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Originally posted by melon


I think he's talking in hypotheticals.

If you could convince people not to have abortions, while still keeping it legal, would you prefer it to it being illegal, but women still having them at the same rate? The fact is that abortions occurred long before Roe v. Wade, and women would likely continue to have them illegally like before.

So is it about the legality or the abortions? That's the question.

Melon
Yes, women would still have them, but I think the numbers of abortions would go down, at least slightly (maybe even more than slightly), because some women who might have had them legally wouldn't have them illegally, for fear of prosecution and incarceration.

But even if the abortion rate would be the same (which I highly doubt), of course I'd still want it to be illegal.

But one thing I know beyond any sort of reasonable doubt whatsoever - if we overturned Roe v. Wade, the abortion rate would not be higher than it is now.
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Old 07-23-2005, 02:28 PM   #11
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Yes, women would still have them, but I think the numbers of abortions would go down, at least slightly (maybe even more than slightly), because some women who might have had them legally wouldn't have them illegally, for fear of prosecution and incarceration.
And the ones that would still have them anyways will end up shoving coat hangers inside themselves in their basements, as opposed to in a sterile environment with painkillers like in a hospital.
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Old 07-23-2005, 02:36 PM   #12
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But one thing I know beyond any sort of reasonable doubt whatsoever - if we overturned Roe v. Wade, the abortion rate would not be higher than it is now.
No, but the deaths may.
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Old 07-23-2005, 03:11 PM   #13
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How do you know it would be unchaged? Did it ever occur to you that the abortion rate is down b/c there are Planned Parenthood Facilities?

As to the Court and Dems..there is no compromise. Before the Court vacany came up, you could maybe have a "big tent." But with the Court about to change, you have to defend Roe. B/c that's what they've wanted since 1973. Never before have they been in apolitical position to overturn it, and now they are. They've waited a long time. Abortion is NOT something that can go back to the states. It must NOT be subjected to the willy-nilly of politics every 4 yrs. Abortion must be federally protected, beyond the reach of the states or lower courts..it as fundamental as birth control. Meanwhile, we should be working on ways to lower the need for abortions. This covers a wide range of things from economic stumuli, etc...we aren't ready to scrap Roe. When we are ready to scrap it, fine. But we aren't. In fact, it has gotten worse. Too few women have health insurance, access to cheap birth control, etc. The income gap has windened dramatically in 30 yrs.

And lest we forget, I suspect a lot of this Taliban bunch would do away with birth control if they could. Look at the absurd pharmacy "conscience" law controversy. A lot of those "concerned" pahrmacists don't like giving out Pills either. Coincidence?

And DaveC...spoken like a true man. Men do not have to deal with the responsibilty of raising kids. Society still does not tar and feather a man for abandoning a child, the way it does a mother. Women are still the ones stuck with the kids, push comes to shove. Doing all the dirty work. Men, for the most part, don't have to suffer as much. Sorry, guys, but when it comes to kids, the double standard is still alive and well, for all you are "enlightened" today and do the housework sometimes. If you flame me for this statement, I don't care. Men sow their wild oats. They are "husbands and fathers."But women are viewed as abnormal in popular culture if they are as carelessly promiscuous as men. We take sex for granted, but popular culture doesn't. Look at "Fatal Attraction" (old movie, I know, but standards haven't changed.) Women are "wives and mothers." Why switch the order in the popular phrase? Women stil have the responsibilities, and they take most of the blame if things don't work out.

Men just CAN'T relate to pregnancy. They can't....or what it will mean. They are still freer to walk out of the relationship and abandon that unborn child. Society will not force him back. The woman must deal. It is HER choice.
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Old 07-23-2005, 04:46 PM   #14
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How do you know it would be unchaged? Did it ever occur to you that the abortion rate is down b/c there are Planned Parenthood Facilities?
Who's talking about "Planned Parenthood"?

I'm talking about overturning Roe V. Wade. If abortion is made illegal, there's no way the abortion rate will be higher than it is now.
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Old 07-23-2005, 04:52 PM   #15
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Originally posted by Teta040
Men sow their wild oats. They are "husbands and fathers."But women are viewed as abnormal in popular culture if they are as carelessly promiscuous as men. We take sex for granted, but popular culture doesn't. Look at "Fatal Attraction" (old movie, I know, but standards haven't changed.) Women are "wives and mothers." Why switch the order in the popular phrase? Women stil have the responsibilities, and they take most of the blame if things don't work out.
I don't know how it works in America, but in my country, and in the UK, the legal system is abused by some women to deny fathers access to their kids. That is FACT.

'Men sow their wild oats' - SOME men sow their wild oats. So do SOME women.
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