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Old 07-26-2004, 06:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
What exactly is Spains new government doing now to help the Iraqi people
Same thing yours and mine are doing to help the Sudanese people.

Are the people or Iraq more equal or something?
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Old 07-26-2004, 07:13 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Same thing yours and mine are doing to help the Sudanese people.

Are the people or Iraq more equal or something?
Ahh yes, I've seen this type of arguement made a thousand times, often about US intervention in the Balkans in the 1990s. Anytime the United States or another country helps out some place in the world, you get criticized for helping there and not over here or over there. Just because one cannot put all the fires out does not mean they should not put any out.

Ultimately, the coalition and the entire planet for that matter have a huge stake in what happens in Iraq and the Persian Gulf Region. Most of the planets energy supplies comes from the area making the global economy and global wealth very dependent on access to the regions energy.

Without a strong global economy, it would be impossible to even consider getting involved in places like Sudan. The United States and the Western world cannot reach out and help in these third world countries in Africa if they are unable to take care of the crucial national and international security needs.

That being said, there are several European countries, like France, Germany, and now Spain that are NOT involved at all in Iraq and have only tiny amounts of troops in Afghanistan. These three countries have a combined military force of over 600,000. Granted, not all of those are ground troops and their ability to project such ground forces so far from their home territory's is even more limited, but clearly, since they are doing very little when it comes to major international security needs, why not send a few thousand troops to Sudan.
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Old 07-27-2004, 07:35 AM   #33
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Multilateralism means having a big coalition and having an excuse to not do anything because nobody can agree.
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Old 07-27-2004, 10:54 AM   #34
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A_Wanderer:

Difference of Uniliteralism and Multiliteralism at a fictive example somewhere in the mid east

Uniliteralism:
Some arab countries create a "colaition of the willing" and invade Israel because of its WMD program

Multilateralism:
The arab countries ask for a invasion of Israel in the UN and the mayority dosn't agree -> nothing hapens
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep




This is a disappointing example of attributing a behavior to a religion or a race.


These "people" may have been snobs,
or exhibited other 'bad' behavior in your eyes.

It had no more to do with them being "Jews" than it did with them being Geminis or "right-handed".

Perpetuating stereotypes is in my opinion, anti-Semitic.
I thought I'd comment that Jews are blessed because they are God's people. They are looked at like this because they are usually successfull. God has blessed them through the centuries. This has been the cause of several wars, like the German opression. People were jealous because the Jews are so successfull. God blesses them because they are his people. This doesen't mean they will have an easy life. As you can tell by looking at their past, Isrealis have been persecuted through the centuries. That is their bless and their curse.
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Old 07-27-2004, 09:37 PM   #36
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Originally posted by u2lovr
God has blessed them through the centuries. This has been the cause of several wars, like the German opression.
This is a statement of faith, not of fact.
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Old 07-28-2004, 02:50 AM   #37
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Klaus you have it backwards, Because of Israels WMD program a coalition of Arab states decides that it cannot invade Israel. Seriously though Multilateralism is bascially any agreement or action containing more than two actors, I was really making the point that guaranteeing peace in the United Nations is unfortunately a brilliant way to ensure that lots of people can die because of inaction. There is a very ugly side of history that shows that nations will not act unless it is in their own interest, its hard enough to get one country to do the right thing but when you throw in even more self interested nations it just makes the whole process even harder.

UN = Place where dictators have the ability to punch above their level.
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Old 07-28-2004, 07:40 AM   #38
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A_Wanderer:
So you think that the US forces would not have invaded Iraq if they were really convinced that Iraq had WMDs?

The UN isn't perfect - it's far from that but that dosn't mean that Social-darvinism between governments (Survival of the fittest and most powerfull) is a better choice
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Old 07-28-2004, 08:14 AM   #39
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I would just like to take a moment here and apologize for the comments I made earlier on this thread...
that was very insensitive of me.

typically im not so narrowminded

sorry
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Old 07-28-2004, 09:39 AM   #40
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STING2:
With spain i think you're wrong.
The Spanish Government was pro iraq war - if you looked at the polls of the Spanish citizens the mayority was against this war.
Then the Leader of Spain simply announced immediately who must be guilty without anny proofs - this didn't support his credibility.
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Old 07-28-2004, 09:47 AM   #41
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WMD's are pretty useless against the US on a battlefield, the tanks have filters, the troops have gas masks, it surely makes it more difficult but dispersion of troops and other factors make them pretty useless against a prepared enemy, civilian targets on the other hand are an entirely different problems because if used in a subway the can do a hell of a lot of damage.

I like the UN in principle, I love multilateralism between nations, I just look at the reality of the UN and see an organization full of corruption and self-interest, it cannot work until each and every member state is a proper democracy with respect from human rights and nations can put the good of humanity above their own self interest. It sickens me to the pit of my stomach to think that the UN is the moral compass of the world after all the mistakes of the 1990's and the continuing abuses (rapes and sex trade by UN Peacekeepers, Oil for Food bribery, Forcing people to convert to Islam to recieve Aid - now this is not from the UN beurocracy it was done by those the UN uses to distribute but the fact that they let it continue really sickens me, Disproportionate condemnation of Israel all this along with many other specific instances just makes me see an organization that has betrayed its founders vision, Its Meant to be like The Federation and not The Galactic Senate!).
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Old 07-28-2004, 09:58 AM   #42
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This thread has got nothing to do with anti-semitism anymore, I will attempt to get it back on track. The goods news is that anti-semitism in the Netherlands is down for the first time since 2000 (since the 2nd intifadah started). The ammount of severe cases (violence) has decreased with 40%. So it's not all bad news
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Old 10-31-2004, 04:54 PM   #43
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This is criminal, it is desecration, but it is not something that we can turn away from.



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Graves desecrated by vandals with Nazi swastikas and anti-semitic slogans in the Jewish cemetery of Brumath, close to Strasbourg, October 31, 2004. It is the third time in the last six months that Jewish cemeteries have been desecrated in the Alsace region. REUTERS/Vincent Kessler
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Old 10-31-2004, 05:20 PM   #44
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Damn. That is absolutely..........there are no words. I'm beyond disgusted.
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:28 PM   #45
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And then there was The Passion of the Christ.
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