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Old 07-16-2005, 08:09 AM   #61
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Then you did word it wrong - big time. You originally said that believing every word of the Bible to be true is dangerous.

First, I believe every word that came from Christ's mouth, and Christ spoke of Adam and Eve, as if they actually existed:


i still think that believing every word of the bible to be fact is dangerous. i think that viewing the bible as a list of commands to be blindly followed regardless of consequence is dangerous. i think to trust the bible, when your experience tells you that what is written in the bible is flat out wrong (or, more likely, your interpretation of the bible is wrong) is dangerous.

anyone who is going to place a book above their own logic, rationality, conscience and experience is dangerous.

and i think it's crap to believe that every word Jesus said is recorded in the bible, or that ever word he's credited as saying he actually spoke. are there recordings of his speeches? do we have archived video footage? emails? no, we don't, we have the recording of what other people (with their own set of interests) *chose* to attribute to Jesus. and don't give me a line about "god would find a way" because that's so intellecutally bogus, such a rationalization, that it renders pretty much everything else suspect.

have you ever written fiction? ever had your writing read by other people nd had them tell you what they think you were writing about? it's *amazing* the things people will read into your words, and it sort of doesn't matter what it is you originally intended -- it only matters what people read into your words. the bible is exactly like this -- it's ALL interpretation of a text written thousands of years ago. just look at how wildly Bono's lyrics can be interpretaed -- i.e., i remember you not seeing how "mysterious ways" could possibly be about sex, when it's as clear as day to me that there's a blatant oral sex reference and the song is about melding the sexual with the spiritual.

bottom line: the dogmatic assertion of one's interpretation of the Bible as a sort of trump card over everything that happens in life, augmented by the handed-down belief that "every word in the Bible is true," is a dangerous thing. because religion, when viewed and understood in the wrong way, is the most destructive thing on the face of the earth.

at its most benevolent, people burn Harry Potter books. at it's most malevolent, people kill other people.
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Old 07-16-2005, 08:33 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


i still think that believing every word of the bible to be fact is dangerous. i think that viewing the bible as a list of commands to be blindly followed regardless of consequence is dangerous. i think to trust the bible, when your experience tells you that what is written in the bible is flat out wrong (or, more likely, your interpretation of the bible is wrong) is dangerous.

anyone who is going to place a book above their own logic, rationality, conscience and experience is dangerous.
As I've told you before, nothing in the Bible contradicts my experience, logic, rationale, or conscience. So there is no contradiction for me; never has been. And that doesn't mean I'm following blindly.

We're right back where we started from, then. You do view those of us who believe that every word in the Bible is true as being dangerous. And therefore, you're every bit as culpable for the execution and jailing of Christians as I am for the ill treatment of gays. I believe that the level of culpability for each of us is zero. But if my belief that homosexuality is wrong is fanning the flames of hatred against gays, then your belief that Bible-believing Christians are dangerous is fanning the flames of hatred against Christians. There is no way around that.
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Old 07-16-2005, 10:08 AM   #63
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Of course it's dangerous. When there is absolutely no logic to something like why two people can't love each other except some verse out of the bible then it's dangerous. When you deny science because of a misinterpretation of the Bible then it's dangerous.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:18 AM   #64
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Of course it's dangerous. When there is absolutely no logic to something like why two people can't love each other except some verse out of the bible then it's dangerous. When you deny science because of a misinterpretation of the Bible then it's dangerous.
BVS,
Never have I said that 2 peple can't love each other, and neither does the Bible. Nor have I ever "denied science" because of the Bible. The Bible doesn't "deny science", either.

The thing I don't agree with many scientists about is evolution...but guess what, evolution is a THEORY.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:33 AM   #65
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


BVS,
Never have I said that 2 peple can't love each other, and neither does the Bible. Nor have I ever "denied science" because of the Bible. The Bible doesn't "deny science", either.

The thing I don't agree with many scientists about is evolution...but guess what, evolution is a THEORY.
I never said YOU said anything. Many read the Bible and interpret it to say that two men or two women can't love each other, that it's wrong (Actually it never really mentions women so all you lesbians are free...).

And yes many interpret the Bible to say that the world was created in a week, which goes against scientific FACT!!! Then you have wack jobs like Bush who won't allow stem cell research because some other wack jobs have told him it's unChristian based on absolutely nothing from the Bible. It's sick.
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Old 07-16-2005, 12:55 PM   #66
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Then you have wack jobs like Bush who won't allow stem cell research because some other wack jobs have told him it's unChristian based on absolutely nothing from the Bible.
I'm one of the "whack jobs", and while stem cell research wasn't mentioned by name in the Bible (how could it have been) by name, there are other biblical concepts that give us an indication of what God's view on stem cell research on embryonic stem cells might be.

In order to harvest ESCs, an embryo must be destroyed. The biblical teaching is that human existence begins at conception and that life in the womb is sacred:

"You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.

My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them." Psalm 139:13-16

"The word of the Lord came to [Jeremiah], saying:
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you." Jeremiah 1:4-5

"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life . . ." Exodus 21:22-25

Worldwide, the consensus of embryologists agrees that life begins at fertilization (http://www.all.org/abac/quarter.htm). Because research on ESCs requires the destruction of a living human being, it is against God’s will.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:06 PM   #67
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I have reservations about stem cell research too but the problem with citing selective Biblical quotes to support your political stances is just that, the selectivity of it.

Can't remember the reference but I'm sure you are well aware there is a section in the Bible calling for parents to stone their children if they misbehave. Yes it's in the Old Testament, but so are the quotes you cited above!

One wonders whether fundamentalists would want this measure be implemented into our laws?
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:32 PM   #68
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If he's a christian why is he cussing...?
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:34 PM   #69
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Originally posted by financeguy
I have reservations about stem cell research too but the problem with citing selective Biblical quotes to support your political stances is just that, the selectivity of it.

Can't remember the reference but I'm sure you are well aware there is a section in the Bible calling for parents to stone their children if they misbehave. Yes it's in the Old Testament, but so are the quotes you cited above!

One wonders whether fundamentalists would want this measure be implemented into our laws?
Why would it matter if what he cited was in the old testemant? In the OT there were alot of "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots" that are mute today, but those were laws. He cited scriptures that were eternal truths about God and life, not commandments.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:36 PM   #70
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


that life in the womb is sacred:

So now a petri dish is a womb? I think God would be offended.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:38 PM   #71
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Originally posted by shart1780


Why would it matter if what he cited was in the old testemant? In the OT there were alot of "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots" that are mute today, but those were laws. He cited scriptures that were eternal truths about God and life, not commandments.
You're really not getting it, are you?

The point is, once you go down the route of citing quotes from the Bible to support your political stance, you leave yourself open to accusations of selectivity.

Unless, of course you are in favour of public stonings.

Are you, Shart1780?
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:39 PM   #72
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If he's a christian why is he cussing...?
What? Who?

Anyways...yeah I forgot Christians are perfect?

Anyways where's that verse that talks about the 7 naughty words we aren't suppose to say?
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:49 PM   #73
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So now a petri dish is a womb? I think God would be offended.
BVS, did I or did I not say:


while stem cell research wasn't mentioned by name in the Bible (how could it have been) by name, there are other biblical concepts that give us an indication of what God's view on stem cell research on embryonic stem cells might be.

How in thw world could you get form that that I was calling the womb a "petri dish"?

Or do you not know that embryos come from the womb?
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:54 PM   #74
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Originally posted by financeguy
I have reservations about stem cell research too but the problem with citing selective Biblical quotes to support your political stances is just that, the selectivity of it.

Can't remember the reference but I'm sure you are well aware there is a section in the Bible calling for parents to stone their children if they misbehave. Yes it's in the Old Testament, but so are the quotes you cited above!

One wonders whether fundamentalists would want this measure be implemented into our laws?
financeguy, where is that passage in the Bible? I'm very curious!

Of the 3 passages I quoted, only one is a law. I did not post it because I think that we are still to abide by that law. I know that Christ brings Christian a new covenant - he has released the burden of the Mosaic law upon us. The reason I posted that verse is that, like the other 2 verses I posted, it speaks to the importance that God places upon life in the womb.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:56 PM   #75
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest



Or do you not know that embryos come from the womb?
Embryo is a fertalized egg. Now unless I'm completely off mark here, I believe the eggs are being fertalized in labs.
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