CWP Carrier Saves a Life

[U2Bama]

Perhaps you are addressing me as some type of "religious right" theocrat, which I am not. In fact, I do not favor theocracy.

Also, Jesus' command to "turn the other cheek" dealt with personal self defense, not necessarily with defending another person (as Due Moore was doing).

I am not sure if your intent in applying wome type of "What Would Jesus Do" standard to Due Moore and what he encountered; we don't know from these articles what religion he follows. But while we're at it, I've already stated that the original translation from Mosaic law was "Thou Shalt Not Murder," not "Thou Shalt Not Kill (in Any Situation Including That Of Defending A Person In A Wal-Mart Deli)."

You're asking us to seperate the wrongful actions of Felix Vigil from this case, but apply religious teachings to it. But the specifics of the case, and what Felix Vigil was doing, are crucial to this situation.

Yes, at your invitation, I will call it sidetracking, because that is exactly what you're doing. You're using this thread as a forum to address your grievances with Christianity, Christian morals and with Christians (inlcuding NBCrusader who hasn't even posted in here so I don't know why you brought him into it; perhaps he'll consider it an honor) when this case has all to do with U.S. and New Mexico law.

Why do you talk so nasty? You used to be so nice back when brettig and zooropamanda were around. Gosh you get angry whenever you encounter someone with an opinion different from yours.

~U2Alabama

 

[Angela Harlem]

Talk nasty or am nasty? I didn't think you knew me very well infact, outside this forum. Needless, my talking out of line will hopefully be under control in 3-4 months. It bothers me as much as anyone else, but the specific cause should be over soon. But anyway, you made a point and I will address it. I've been bothered by aspects of Christianity for a very long time. Personally bothered. As this grew, I thought it might be best to seek some answers. So I began searching. Hitting a few brickwalls, my frustration grew and shifted. Now, it does shame me to say, I find it can slip over to individuals when I encounter them. I see more stonewalling and this of course clashes perfectly with my fustration and perhaps growing intolerance. I'm by no means more moral or a better person than those who have found Chrisitianity, but I'm not going to roll over and pretend that what I have a problem with isn't valid and I am completely mistaken. There lies issues with both sides - me needing to grow some tolerance and accept that i wont or might not ever understand, but also with some coughing up with some clarity on what I am literally unable to see with all this hypocrisy (for want of a better word). All of this has absolutely nothing to do with any individual on here, it simly rises up again when I encounter debates from that side. it brings back all these questions and problems I have and once again I get reminded that I am absolutely no closer to an understanding and I've yet to meet anyone who seemed willing to help. Speaking of people here in particular, once 80sU2etc answered some of them, and I was extremely grateful. However, I think my questions could probably go on for months and I firstly didn't want to end up bothering him(besides he is busy right now in his offline life) and also because I want a variation of opinions. One person cannot answer for all.

So, that is a somewhat brief description of where I am coming from. As relevant as it might be to what sidetracked, I dont want to have any kind of personal interrogation here for anyone, you, me whoever. I didn't mean to address you as any kind of "religious right". You personally, I cant even say what you'd fall into category-wise, and as this is my best to try not to personalise this, I wont try. But in the years I have read yuor posts, you've never come across as much of one or the other. You seem to tackle things in a very neutral way, while staying true to your own beliefs. It is commended. As for mentioning nbcrusader, he again was not a target of some hatred for the religious. I mentioned him because he is a somewhat prolific member here, and the first I thought of when contemplating the group who loosely and somewhere fit into the very broad group of those I seek answers from. It is exactly people like him, iron horse, macphisto23 (I might have this screen name wrong) who I'd like to hear from. By not controlling my usual frustration, it goes from seeking knowledge, to unfair vilification. And that's just not true.
You seemed to call this sidetracking (which I will freely admit to) unnecessary. I disagree. I disagree to it being uneccesary. Often in topics of social justices, we see the division clealry in political and religious stances. Gun control seems to be no different to other hot topics in here. These differences in opinion relate directly back to some of my issues. We can talk until we're blue in the face that politics is seperate from religion, and in the history books it has been kept out. But we all know religion lies along wth it. On all sides. Take censorship. Both sides broadly have reason to feel they are not being taken into account.

Even I am getting bored now so I'll stop this ridiculously longwinded rambling. Hope this helps give some understanding. I know it isn't coherant, but it's the best I have for now.

 

[U2Bama]

However, I think my questions could probably go on for months and I firstly didn't want to end up bothering him(besides he is busy right now in his offline life) and also because I want a variation of opinions. One person cannot answer for all.

We can talk until we're blue in the face that politics is seperate from religion, and in the history books it has been kept out. But we all know religion lies along wth it. On all sides. Take censorship. Both sides broadly have reason to feel they are not being taken into account.

Even I am getting bored now so I'll stop this ridiculously longwinded rambling. Hope this helps give some understanding. I know it isn't coherant, but it's the best I have for now.

I think I know now where you are coming from, and I do understand and it is coherent. Going back up to the first of your paragraphs that I quoted above in this reply, I think you are taking the right approach in knowing that "one person cannot answer for all." I may have different views from nbcrusader who may have different views from 80sU2IsBest ad infinitum.

Even this afternoon at my parents' house where we all gathered for Labor Day dinner, we discovered amongst my brothers, our mom, and myself that some of us have different views on Christianity (and I can assure you that it was not a discussion regarding politics). I think you see that on a much larger scale here in this forum. I do attempt to live my life in a way that is pleasing to Christ. I take a 32-36 week intensive bible study each year, and attempt to attend church service or "Sunday School" on a weekly schedule. However, my "walk" is not always perfect, or else I would never need to seek forgiveness. My understanding of "Christian living" is not complete, or else I would have no need to seek guidance from friends, pastors, family or the Bible. But I do feel like I understand enough to formulate my lifestyle and political view in a fashion compatible with that same "Christian living."

Personally, I could probably never "kill" another person. But I can tell you that if I witnessed someone harming or attacking a relative or friend of mine, or even one of the kids across the street whose names I don't even know, I must admit that I would use force, if necessary, to save their life. Based on your understanding of Christianity, that may not measure up as to what you think the proper response would be. And if that is the case, I implore you not to look to me as an example of a good Christian. I definitely count on grace for much of what I seek in following Christ, because I am a sinner. Jesus never specifically told us the proper action to take if we see an innocent person being attacked; I can only hope that what I would do would be the right thing. If it's not, then I would seek His forgiveness.

~U2Alabama

 

[BVS]

If the tools are the problem we should outlaw various other potentially deadly objects, such as knives, metal bars and rocks.

Why do people even bother with this weak ass argument? How many mass killings have you heard are caused by rocks? How many long distance killings have you heard are caused by metal bars? I'd rather take my chances running from or defending myself from a knife than a gun any day.

 

[the iron horse]

"Why do people even bother with this weak ass argument? How many mass killings have you heard are caused by rocks? How many long distance killings have you heard are caused by metal bars? I'd rather take my chances running from or defending myself from a knife than a gun any day."



The argument is not weak.

Evil people will kill using whatever means.

Your better idea to run from knife vs a gun,

is mute.

People with evil in their hearts will kill.

Ted Bundy never used a gun.

 

[BVS]

The argument is not weak.

Evil people will kill using whatever means.

Your better idea to run from knife vs a gun,

is mute.

People with evil in their hearts will kill.

Ted Bundy never used a gun.

Yes the evil will kill, but without guns it's not as easy and their numbers would be much much lower. Just look at the number of murders vs. knives, bats, etc...

Crimes of passion would be reduced significantly.

No one claims that gun control would stop murder just reduce it EXTREMELY. Compare the number of murders vs self defense with a gun...not even comparable.

The argument is weak, it's apples to oranges.

The argument is not mute, I know those that defended themselves from knife attacks and are still living, if the attacker had a gun they wouldn't be living.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Thank you, Bama.

 

[U2Bama]

You are welcome, Angela.

And, by the way, I got an e-mail from ol' dbrettig asking if I was affected by Katrina. If you still keep in touch with Zooropa_Amanda, tell her I said hello.

~U2Alabama