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Old 06-08-2007, 08:44 AM   #46
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You know all this your side is wrong/right thing, just strengthens the opposition to each really.

Spiritualism of some kind, of something greater than ourselves will always exist, it's pointless to try to destroy it, if you can't reason God(s) out of existence, they/it exist outside reason, stick to getting rid of the bad practices etc associated with the religions that get built around them.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:05 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by LJT
You know all this your side is wrong/right thing, just strengthens the opposition to each really.

Spiritualism of some kind, of something greater than ourselves will always exist, it's pointless to try to destroy it, if you can't reason God(s) out of existence, they/it exist outside reason, stick to getting rid of the bad practices etc associated with the religions that get built around them.
Exxxxxxxxxxcellent post.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:15 AM   #48
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Originally posted by unico
Anyway, I was wondering how the human soul figures into evolution? I understand it is very explicit in the evolution of the human body, but I don't think I've heard anything about the soul.
Can I get back to you when I'm more lucid? I tried to type somethingh just now, but I can barely think straight due to end-of-school-year wipeout.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:29 AM   #49
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Why derail a perfectly good Iraq thread?

What does any of this have to do with gay marriage ?

Anyhow, anyone who feels strongly about Creationism, strongly or negatively, should read Darwin. Anyone felling the same about Evolution should read the Bible.

That will shut everyone up good and nice for some time to come.

Oh, and creationsim/intelligent design is a complete and total crock.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:37 AM   #50
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Originally posted by martha


Can I get back to you when I'm more lucid? I tried to type somethingh just now, but I can barely think straight due to end-of-school-year wipeout.
I feel your pain
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:38 AM   #51
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Originally posted by LJT
You know all this your side is wrong/right thing, just strengthens the opposition to each really.

Spiritualism of some kind, of something greater than ourselves will always exist, it's pointless to try to destroy it, if you can't reason God(s) out of existence, they/it exist outside reason, stick to getting rid of the bad practices etc associated with the religions that get built around them.
Wow that was really well said!
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:49 AM   #52
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Re: Creationism isn't Right

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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Evolution is a theory that elegantly explains the scientific facts better than other explanations for the diversity of life on Earth and has been verified by the major discoveries in biology and geology since it was first put forward.

Creationism and intelligent design each hold the fallacy that they depend on untestable elements thus rendering them unscientific and unworthy for discussion on the same level.

Discuss.
The big problem with evolution is that it violates a fundamental concept of physics; conservation of mass. It states mass can neither be created nor destroyed. Evolution is a linear theory in that it demands a point A for something to get to a point B. Except, if mass is never created or destroyed, there can never be a point A.

Evolution always needs a beginning; prior to the single cell organism there was water; prior to water there was Oxygen and Hydrogen (atmosphere); prior to atmosphere there was the Earth; prior to Earth there was.. etc etc until we're back to the Big Bang which violates conservation of mass (along with a host of other physical laws).
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:55 AM   #53
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^^Thanks, people just need to let others come to their own conclusions about what is, or what is not out there, the attempts to vehemently disprove or destroy belief systems, whether it's forcing someone to believe in something spiritual or forcing someone to accept the all powerful wisdom of science, just creates very bitter people on either side.

Creationism is daft but as long as it is not taught in any science classroom i'm generally okay with it.......

These arguments are fun reading even if they are as predictable as the tides
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:22 AM   #54
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Creationism is daft but as long as it is not taught in any science classroom i'm generally okay with it.......
But that's the essence of the issue here. None of us would be discussing it were it not for a significant number of conservatives who tried (and in some cases succeeded) to get this into the curriculum. This is not an issue that would have otherwise had any mileage. People don't sit around and discuss the merits of the Hindu teachings of creation/destruction because it's a religious belief and because nobody's trying to impose that religious belief into biology class.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:27 AM   #55
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But that's the essence of the issue here. None of us would be discussing it were it not for a significant number of conservatives who tried (and in some cases succeeded) to get this into the curriculum. This is not an issue that would have otherwise had any mileage. People don't sit around and discuss the merits of the Hindu teachings of creation/destruction because it's a religious belief and because nobody's trying to impose that religious belief into biology class.


but haven't we learned that Christianity is "truer-er" than all the other religions ever?

logically, if we are to question evolution, we will arrive at Christian Creationism.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:39 AM   #56
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The creation museum outside of Cleveland claims:

Quote:
There were posters explaining just how coal could be formed in a few weeks as opposed to over millions of years and how rapidly the Biblical flood would cover the earth, drowning all but a handful of living creatures. The flood plays a big part in the museum's attempt to explain away what we see as millions of years of natural processes. There was also an explanation as to why, with only one progenitor family, it wasn't considered incest for Adam and Eve's children to marry each other. Apparently there was less sin back then, and therefore fewer mutations in their DNA. Evidently sin, not two copies of the same recessive trait, gives rise to congenital birth defects.
I don't care what your religious beliefs are - I, too, was raised a Christian. But this is simply absurd and I refuse to call it anything but.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:41 AM   #57
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Originally posted by Earnie Shavers


If 'how' - aside from that "God did it" - is clearly irrelevant, then why are variants on 'how' such an offence to your faith?
I'm not offended if somebody believes in evolution. If they want to teach evolution in classrooms, fine. People like me will just shrug it off because we have a different belief of what happened. I thought the point of this thread was to explain why I believe in creationism, which I did, not to bash those who believe in evolution, or vice-versa.

As someone said, yes, there are things in the Bible that seem far-fetched to have really happened (Jonah in the fish, Moses parting the sea, not to mention all the miracles of Jesus), but I think those things, the large displays of God's power really did occur, and that includes creating the universe. I also agree that parts of the Bible are to be taked literally and parts metaphorically. But when the Bible says, for example, that there were 3 times when God spoke to Jesus (literally spoke, audibly, and the people around Jesus heard Him too), I cant help but believe that that really happened. It's too awesome to not want to believe.

I hope this doesnt turn into a "why Christianity is wrong/stupid" debate.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:41 AM   #58
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can someone show me where it says that Adam and Eve were married?

what kind of ceremony did they have? did she wear Vera Wang?
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:43 AM   #59
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can someone show me where it says that Adam and Eve were married?

what kind of ceremony did they have? did she wear Vera Wang?
scandelous
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:45 AM   #60
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But that's the essence of the issue here. None of us would be discussing it were it not for a significant number of conservatives who tried (and in some cases succeeded) to get this into the curriculum. This is not an issue that would have otherwise had any mileage. People don't sit around and discuss the merits of the Hindu teachings of creation/destruction because it's a religious belief and because nobody's trying to impose that religious belief into biology class.
You have to at least be equitable in this. Maybe conservatives wouldn't have had to try (and in some cases succeed) to get this into the cirriculum if liberals hadn't tried (and in most cases succeeded) to eridicate God from classrooms, holidays, goverment offices, etc.
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