Creationism isn't Right - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-08-2007, 12:49 AM   #31
New Yorker
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 2,710
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
Yeah, there is. If I tell two people there's a tiger in the bathroom, behind the closed door, the person who believes that is taking a leap of faith, but the person who thinks that's an absolutely ridiculous suggestion for a bunch of logical reasons is still, without being able to know 100% for sure that there isn't a tiger in the bathroom until the door is opened, basing it on faith. One just might be a more grounded faith than the other, in that one might be believing it because I say it is so and I don't normally make this shit up, and the other disbelieves based on the grounded logic that (a) where the fuck would I get a tiger from in the suburbs of Sydney (b) how the fuck would I get it into the bathroom (c) why is there no other evidence of it outside the bathroom - no trailer attached to my car, no muddy tiger prints or fur in the hallway, me being in possession of all my limbs (etc etc etc).

Not believing in a religious sense is exactly the same leap of faith as believing - seeing as if it wasn't, it wouldn't be because you were able to actually prove the non-existence, but you can't just as much as 'they' can't prove the existence - so it's a leap for both of you.
I'd like a tiger in my bathroom. Might get the kiddliewinks in and out of the bath quicker.
__________________

__________________
Tania is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:55 AM   #32
New Yorker
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 2,710
Local Time: 01:14 AM
Note: Evolution is a theory which is supported by scientific facts (which we can either dispute or accept, personally I accept). Christianity is a belief system, not a theory, so the argument that one has facts to back it and one doesn't seems a bit erroneous.
__________________

__________________
Tania is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:13 AM   #33
War Child
 
Ormus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Frontios
Posts: 758
Local Time: 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
First off, if you're looking for scientific evidence to prove or validate Christianity, you wont find it. That being said, I dont believe in evolution. I believe 100% in creationism. I believe God created Adam and Eve, day and night, the plants and the animals, the sea and the sky in 6 days. Christianity is a religion. It takes FAITH to believe what you believe, and it will never, ever be proven scientifically, and quite frankly, I dont want it to be.

To me, the athiest approach of the big bang is hard to believe. To me, THAT takes faith to believe. Creationism is a no-brainer to me and surely millions of Christians across the planet. You're right that creation will never and cannot be proven, but science isnt everything.

If you consider yourself a Christian and want to believe in evolution, knock yourself out, but thats not for me. I refuse to accept the notion that my great great... grandfather was a monkey.
Except science has more than disproven literal creationism a long time ago. To put it this way, sure, Christianity boils down to faith, but seven-day creationism itself did not happen, and there is an immense amount of evidence that the planet is more than 6,000 years old.

Evolution is not necessarily "the atheistic position," and for the billions of Catholics around the world, for instance, God-driven evolution ("evolutionary creationism," a.k.a., "theistic evolution"--not to be confused with the incompatible "intelligent design") is the Vatican-approved standard.
__________________
Ormus is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:14 AM   #34
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,673
Local Time: 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
what is the point ?

the few Religious people that will share their opinions in this forum

are supposed to step up and take a few on the chin?
I agree...
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:21 AM   #35
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,673
Local Time: 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
First off, if you're looking for scientific evidence to prove or validate Christianity, you wont find it. That being said, I dont believe in evolution. I believe 100% in creationism. I believe God created Adam and Eve, day and night, the plants and the animals, the sea and the sky in 6 days. Christianity is a religion. It takes FAITH to believe what you believe, and it will never, ever be proven scientifically, and quite frankly, I dont want it to be.
Fair enough. This is actually the first few sentences you've made in FYM that don't require huge amounts of facts to back up that you can't provide. You're right it all comes down to faith.

Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

To me, the athiest approach of the big bang is hard to believe. To me, THAT takes faith to believe. Creationism is a no-brainer to me and surely millions of Christians across the planet. You're right that creation will never and cannot be proven, but science isnt everything.

If you consider yourself a Christian and want to believe in evolution, knock yourself out, but thats not for me. I refuse to accept the notion that my great great... grandfather was a monkey.
This is the part that kills me though. To think science is only an athiest view is ridiculous. Absolute bullshit.

Yes you have taken the "no-brainer" approach to existence.

And for you to say "if you consider yourself a Christian..." is absolutely insulting.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 01:27 AM   #36
Babyface
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 19
Local Time: 05:14 PM
If you've read one creationism vs evolution thread on the internet , you've read em all. Pretty much a pointless argument. And how come the "creation" view is almost always that of the Christian religion, and not say Hinduism?

I think this subject is just to stir the pot, and not to really create discussions.
__________________
upabove is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 02:29 AM   #37
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I agree...
Only if the two sides just sit in their corners and throw poo at each other.

So, I have a question for the middle of the room:

Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus

Evolution is not necessarily "the atheistic position," and for the billions of Catholics around the world, for instance, God-driven evolution ("evolutionary creationism," a.k.a., "theistic evolution"--not to be confused with the incompatible "intelligent design") is the Vatican-approved standard.
To those in the "6 Days" corner, what is so objectionable about this belief? What I take from the creation/Adam and Eve story is that 'how' is so not important, it's all 'why', right? I mean, if Genesis just opened with simply "God created the earth and everything on it" and then jumped straight into Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve, would it make any difference to the point of it? I don't think so. If the 'how' is almost completely insignificant in regards to the point/message of the story, then why is it so beyond the realms of belief - or so offensive to suggest - that perhaps it is compacted into a simple, succinct, straight to the point story to simply lay the foundation for the message? Even if you strongly believe in the strict 6 x 24hr day idea, there's no detail in it at all, when you know that if you were there you'd be watching a lot more happening than in the information the Bible gives you. I mean there's no "Let there be light. This also created warmth, which created blah blah, which etc etc." That's not scientific jumble whatever that goes against your faith, that's just what would have happened. Am I making sense? So you know it's been summarised for you anyway, so why would it be difficult to at least have room - even if you don't believe it yourself - for the opinion that perhaps it was dramatically summarised? And we're talking about God here - what's the difference between a split second and a million years anyway, considering minutes/weeks/years are a human creation? Sorry, starting to lose track...

I guess my questions are: What is it that makes you strongly believe that the 6 Days is literally a 6 x 24hr period that only encompasses the events that are listed? Simply because it's God and it's the Bible? There are loads of 'leap of faith' examples in the Bible that are only so because of a lack of detail, and the lack of detail only exists because it's irrelevant to the point of the story. If 'how' - aside from that "God did it" - is clearly irrelevant, then why are variants on 'how' such an offence to your faith?
__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 02:31 AM   #38
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,673
Local Time: 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers


Only if the two sides just sit in their corners and throw poo at each other.

Well I think that was the point of the original post I quoted...
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 02:35 AM   #39
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 06:14 PM
Yes, I know, but the thread doesn't necessarily have to go there or stay there.
__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 02:42 AM   #40
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,673
Local Time: 11:14 AM
But that's where it usually goes, and that is what I was saying...

Nothing more.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 07:04 AM   #41
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,412
Local Time: 12:14 PM
Yaba-daba-deuteronomy

Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
Here exhibits show the Grand Canyon took just days to form during Noah's flood, dinosaurs coexisted with humans and had a place on Noah's Ark
yay, then i sent upon thee two prophets...

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 06-08-2007, 07:18 AM   #42
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
Yeah, there is. If I tell two people there's a tiger in the bathroom, behind the closed door, the person who believes that is taking a leap of faith, but the person who thinks that's an absolutely ridiculous suggestion for a bunch of logical reasons is still, without being able to know 100% for sure that there isn't a tiger in the bathroom until the door is opened, basing it on faith. One just might be a more grounded faith than the other, in that one might be believing it because I say it is so and I don't normally make this shit up, and the other disbelieves based on the grounded logic that (a) where the fuck would I get a tiger from in the suburbs of Sydney (b) how the fuck would I get it into the bathroom (c) why is there no other evidence of it outside the bathroom - no trailer attached to my car, no muddy tiger prints or fur in the hallway, me being in possession of all my limbs (etc etc etc).

Not believing in a religious sense is exactly the same leap of faith as believing - seeing as if it wasn't, it wouldn't be because you were able to actually prove the non-existence, but you can't just as much as 'they' can't prove the existence - so it's a leap for both of you.
Not the same thing because there is evidence that tigers exist and it is within the realms of possibility for one to exist behind that door. For an omnipotent supernatural being it requires what is thought possible to be wrong and that puts it at a very different threshold.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 07:23 AM   #43
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well I think that was the point of the original post I quoted...
Which was to divert one away from another thread.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 08:04 AM   #44
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,335
Local Time: 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
For an omnipotent supernatural being it requires what is thought possible to be wrong and that puts it at a very different threshold.
What the hell does this mean?

No really, what are you trying to say?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 06-08-2007, 08:17 AM   #45
Blue Crack Addict
 
unico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rage Ave.
Posts: 18,747
Local Time: 12:14 PM
Janey Mac!! I'm surprised this debate still exists. I'm always taken aback by how many people still take the Bible literally. Especially when I see them sitting down and enjoying some crabs at supper.

Anyway, I was wondering how the human soul figures into evolution? I understand it is very explicit in the evolution of the human body, but I don't think I've heard anything about the soul.
__________________

__________________
unico is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com