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Old 06-09-2007, 11:43 PM   #406
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Can anyone tell me what other religions say about the creation of the universe?
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:44 PM   #407
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I give 2861U2 credit because he is a bit outnumbered here. And everyone is civil with each other, which can be difficult with an emotional subject.
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:54 PM   #408
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Originally posted by hardyharhar
I give 2861U2 credit because he is a bit outnumbered here. And everyone is civil with each other, which can be difficult with an emotional subject.
And I do agree to a certain extent, but it's extremely difficult(for me at least) to talk to someone who has such a hard time backing themselves up.

This is a poster who when asked why you believe this, has answered well "Rush told me", or "the Bible says" etc.

And you can't really have a discussion with someone like that.

I wonder if the Bible said "humans have 4 legs" would he argue that humans had 4 legs?
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:59 PM   #409
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Can anyone tell me what other religions say about the creation of the universe?
Well, since we're turning Japanese (I think I like it)

First came the 3 creating Deities, then some more heavenly Deities were born but with nothing really to do, two of these were sent to earth, Izanagi and Izanami, to basically form the island of Japan, they eventually begot all kinds of gods and goddesses to rule over the wind, seas, clouds, trees, mountains.

And I apologize if I don't have it exactly right or have missed something.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:02 AM   #410
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It is kinda like And the lemming factor does concern me, because it seems people are much more easily manipulated these days by fear.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:03 AM   #411
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



I wonder if the Bible said "humans have 4 legs" would he argue that humans had 4 legs?
You guys are the ones saying humans had 4 legs, not the Bible, if I understand the "facts" of Darwinism.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:06 AM   #412
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Then, out of the seas. The monster of all monsters............................. Godzilla!!!!!!!!!

Breathing fire and extremely pissed.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:06 AM   #413
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Originally posted by INDY500


You guys are the ones saying humans had 4 legs, not the Bible, if I understand the "facts" of Darwinism.
Touche
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:17 AM   #414
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You guys are the ones saying humans had 4 legs, not the Bible, if I understand the "facts" of Darwinism.
They weren't humans then.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:36 AM   #415
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Originally posted by INDY500


The slow division of a population into separate populations that cannot interbreed does not, to me, prove that given enough time a fish can evolve into a mammal. You are creating a new species only in definition.

Thousands of years of breeding dogs have
1) produced dogs that can't interbreed with all other dogs
2) produced nothing but dogs
A new species in definition is the finely graduated organic chain of evolution, a fish doesn't pop into a mammal there are stages of evolution recorded in the fossil record and living fish today such as the evolution of lungs and bony limbs. In amphibians for the adaptions to life on land. To reptiles and the amniotic egg and to mammals with the mammary gland and varied dentition.

On the scale of a tens to hundreds of millions of years not thousands accumulated change can have dramatic impact.
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Old 06-10-2007, 08:28 AM   #416
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You guys are pretty funny. I dont speak for all Christians. I never said I did and I do not want to.

philly: God did not write the Bible. Look at most Bibles, at the beginning of each book it will state the author or compiler of the stories. The Bible is full of many stories and accounts written by many people. The Bible is God's Word because each story, every word, informs us about God, His love, His plan, etc, not because He wrote it. That's not right.
I explained how you equated yourself. If you don't see it, oh well.

Then why trust the Bible if God didn't write it?

If you think that God made these people write it word for word as he wanted it, I don't understand that. It's pretty clear that the Bible is filled with politics and agendas of those writing it.
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:16 AM   #417
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
A new species in definition is the finely graduated organic chain of evolution, a fish doesn't pop into a mammal there are stages of evolution recorded in the fossil record and living fish today such as the evolution of lungs and bony limbs. In amphibians for the adaptions to life on land. To reptiles and the amniotic egg and to mammals with the mammary gland and varied dentition.

On the scale of a tens to hundreds of millions of years not thousands accumulated change can have dramatic impact.
Well, that's the theory anyway. But it's no more observable or reproducible than any other creation story.

And since it take thousands of accumulated changes -- exactly how does it benefit a creature, for example, that relies on speed and agility to elude predators to be slowed by the flap of what, in thousands of generations, may become a wing. Progressively becoming more prominent but still nowhere near functional.

In other words, given the complexity of new structures, what good is 1% of a wing..or a lung? What makes them the fittest for survival and more likely to pass on their DNA?
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:24 AM   #418
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Originally posted by INDY500


Well, that's the theory anyway. But it's no more observable than any other creation story.



this is the mindless equivocation we're trying to prevent from entering the public schools in the guise of "science."

do we need to reiterate the differences between a theory -- 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll -- and a Scientific Theory?
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:41 AM   #419
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Originally posted by Irvine511





this is the mindless equivocation we're trying to prevent from entering the public schools in the guise of "science."

do we need to reiterate the differences between a theory -- 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll -- and a Scientific Theory?
Yes, there is a difference, a scientific theory is no better than an economic theory or a conspiracy theory -- until it's observable or reproducible.

There are , if you need reminding, more than enough WRONG scientific theories in the wake of what we believe to be facts today. That is the true splendor of science, that it challenges paradigms, and replaces those that don't hold up to scrutiny.

Darwinism, however, seems to be the exception. It is to be defended with almost religious zeal, regardless of the facts.

Therefore, I don't believe Intelligent Design to be a science. But to my satisfaction, it better explains the origin of Man and life better than evolution.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:25 PM   #420
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Originally posted by INDY500



Darwinism, however, seems to be the exception. It is to be defended with almost religious zeal, regardless of the facts.

Therefore, I don't believe Intelligent Design to be a science. But to my satisfaction, it better explains the origin of Man and life better than evolution.


Darwinism isn't a scientific theory.

evolution is.

[q]The term Darwinism is often used by promotors of creationism to describe evolution, notably by leading members of the intelligent design movement.[1] In this usage, the term has connotations of atheism. For example, in Charles Hodge's book What Is Darwinism?, Hodge answers the question posed in the book's title by concluding: "It is Atheism."[2][3][4] Creationists use the term Darwinism, often pejoratively, to imply that the theory has been held as true only by Darwin and a core group of his followers, which they cast as dogmatic and inflexible in their belief. Casting evolution as a doctrine or belief bolsters religiously motivated political arguments to mandate equal time for the teaching of creationism in public schools.

However, Darwinism is also used neutrally within the scientific community to distinguish modern evolutionary theories from those first proposed by Darwin, as well as by historians to differentiate it from other evolutionary theories from around the same period. For example, Darwinism may be used to refer to Darwin's proposed mechanism of natural selection, in comparison to more recent theories such as genetic drift and gene flow. It may also refer specifically to the role of Charles Darwin as opposed to others in the history of evolutionary thought — particularly contrasting Darwin's results with those of earlier theories such as Lamarckism or later ones such as the modern synthesis. A notable example of a scientist who uses the term in a positive sense is Richard Dawkins.
[/q]

the defensiveness you see is in response to the fanatics who want to qualify it -- and only it, when it comes to scientific theories -- with conservative christian crap, called Creationism or Intelligent Design, or some other fabrication that's come from the annals of american conservative christianism.

i'm sure you do find ID lovely and comforting. you're a Christian. and if you try to poison a science curriculum with that garbage, then i'm going to fight you tooth and nail. it is no more scientific than any other religiously-based creation myth.

if you want to discuss this over beers, gosh, go ahead. we can also argue about Santa Claus, Atlantis, the Bermuda Triangle, the exitence of Bigfood, and the UFO abdunction phenomenon. it'd be fun.

just don't pretend that there's a scientific foothold.
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