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Old 06-09-2007, 10:43 PM   #391
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But it does prove without doubt that it wasn't created in 6 days.
Technically it doesn't prove it 100% because there is the off chance that our understanding of basically everything is wrong, the possibility that what we understand today could be wrong does exist even if in some things it is overwhelmingly unlikely. The threshold that we live on an earth that is billions of years old for instance has a very high confidence level on the basis of different lines of evidence.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:48 PM   #392
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Technically it doesn't prove it 100% because there is the off chance that our understanding of basically everything is wrong, the possibility that what we understand today could be wrong does exist even if in some things it is overwhelmingly unlikely. The threshold that we live on an earth that is billions of years old for instance has a very high confidence level on the basis of different lines of evidence.
Well I do think there is a fine line between an "absolute" and a "without a doubt", granted a fine line, but yes you are right there are no absolutes...
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:49 PM   #393
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


Maybe he thought my email address was phillyfan36 instead of 26.
No, he sent it through God, mine came delivered by a dragon.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:50 PM   #394
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But the question of speciation and the fossil record is reconciled by the discoveries in modern biology of allopatric speciation mechanisms where peripheral small populations are able to change rapidly unlike large stable ones then overtaking the geographical extent of the original one thus providing a new species in their place as well as the discoveries in epigenetics which reveal the plasticity in organism development from which macroevolutionary changes emerge.
Doesn't sound like the origin of a species to me. To me, that sounds like a trait that already exists in a species simply becoming more prominent in the whole population in response to a changing environment.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:50 PM   #395
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well I do think there is a fine line between an "absolute" and a "without a doubt", granted a fine line, but yes you are right there are no absolutes...
I'd hate to imagine 2861U2 on a jury.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:51 PM   #396
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I'd hate to imagine 2861U2 on a jury.
Don't scare me like that...
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:56 PM   #397
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Doesn't sound like the origin of a species to me. To me, that sounds like a trait that already exists in a species simply becoming more prominent in the whole population in response to a changing environment.
So you accept that there is variation within species through mutuation and sexual reproduction and that those variations are heritable. If the population is small then genetic drift isn't as strong a stabilising factor and the degree of change in the entire population can be greater. If the change in a peripheral population reaches a point where it means members of those populations can't mate with members of the main population then it is a new biological species and over time because of the genetic barrier between them variations will accumulate.

Measuring the degree of variation between sequences of DNA in different species can be used as a measurement for relatedness.
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:15 PM   #398
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You guys are pretty funny. I dont speak for all Christians. I never said I did and I do not want to.

philly: God did not write the Bible. Look at most Bibles, at the beginning of each book it will state the author or compiler of the stories. The Bible is full of many stories and accounts written by many people. The Bible is God's Word because each story, every word, informs us about God, His love, His plan, etc, not because He wrote it. That's not right.

BVS: I already explained how the story of creation was told. It was told by God to Adam, Abraham and finally Moses on Mount Sinai.

You know what? I feel like I am wasting my time here. In a debate like this, where you guys think facts are all thats important, you will win every time. I have defended my faith and cannot back it up with these golden facts because it is impossible. That's what Christianity is. It is living a life of faith that others on the outside simply cannot comprehend.

Every single Sunday School class I attended, every church service I have sat through, every youth camp I went on has made me who I am. I live every day of my life through Jesus Christ and for Jesus Christ. I am not going to throw it all away because some scientist found a fossil. Am I "ignoring the facts" then? Fine. So be it. I'll "ignore the facts." My God is greater than that.

In the end, my God is going to judge me on a number of things. He is going to judge me based on whether or not I believed solely and completely in Him, whether or not I cried His name in the bad times, whether or not I praised His name in the good times, and whether or not I let the sinful world dictate to me what to follow. I dont think He is going to judge me based on how many scientific facts I knew or accepted.

Science is good. Science is interesting. Science is important. But science is only science. God is God. Nothing compares to the understanding of what He can do, and the greatness of what He can accomplish.

I am done with this thread.
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:23 PM   #399
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
So you accept that there is variation within species through mutuation and sexual reproduction and that those variations are heritable. If the population is small then genetic drift isn't as strong a stabilising factor and the degree of change in the entire population can be greater. If the change in a peripheral population reaches a point where it means members of those populations can't mate with members of the main population then it is a new biological species and over time because of the genetic barrier between them variations will accumulate.

Measuring the degree of variation between sequences of DNA in different species can be used as a measurement for relatedness.
The slow division of a population into separate populations that cannot interbreed does not, to me, prove that given enough time a fish can evolve into a mammal. You are creating a new species only in definition.

Thousands of years of breeding dogs have
1) produced dogs that can't interbreed with all other dogs
2) produced nothing but dogs
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:25 PM   #400
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BVS: I already explained how the story of creation was told. It was told by God to Adam, Abraham and finally Moses on Mount Sinai.

My point of asking you that question was to get you to think.

For two reasons...

Don't you think God may have told the story of creation in a metaphor because that was the only way they would have understood it? How do you tell someone who thinks the Earth is flat about the all the complexities and scientific reasoning of how the universe was created? You can't, so you tell them in a way they understand.

Plus there was no means of recording history in these times, so these stories got passed down for generations before the written language. So picture a big game of 'telephone' for years and years before someone actually wrote them down. The stories would have changed...

This is why I take nothing in the OT to be literal.
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:27 PM   #401
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Originally posted by INDY500


Haven't you got anything constructive to say...about Japanese men in rubber monster costumes.
This looks like a pretty good time

A 400 ft. T- Rex, rising from it's undersea hibernation cuz of atomic testing, determined to destroy Tokyo. Only Dr. Serizawa can save us.........
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:31 PM   #402
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2) produced nothing but dogs
That's only if you consider this to be a dog

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Old 06-09-2007, 11:32 PM   #403
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


That's only if you consider this to be a dog

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Old 06-09-2007, 11:38 PM   #404
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Originally posted by 2861U2

Science is good. Science is interesting. Science is important. But science is only science. God is God. Nothing compares to the understanding of what He can do, and the greatness of what He can accomplish.

I am done with this thread.
Hate to see you go as you bring up an excellent point.

Christianity versus Darwinism is not, as most here would like to define it, faith versus fact, but is closer to philosophy versus philosophy, or worldview versus worldview.

You took more BS and gruff than I ever could.

God bless.
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:42 PM   #405
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Originally posted by hardyharhar


This looks like a pretty good time

A 400 ft. T- Rex, rising from it's undersea hibernation cuz of atomic testing, determined to destroy Tokyo. Only Dr. Serizawa can save us.........
With the oxygen thingy.

By the way, is your screen name a reference to Ralph Kramden or Lippy the Lion?
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