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Old 06-08-2007, 03:59 PM   #211
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Originally posted by Snowlock


But you believe in philosophy and science because you want to. Philosophy at its most base level is nothing more than opinion and scientific facts can change. So you are choosing to believe in something. You're putting your faith in science and philosopy believing they will be your guide.

Keep in mind, this isn't a derogatory post; I'm not saying your way is bad or mines better or whatever. I'm just saying that despite the fact that you wouldn't believe in something just to believe in it; you actually still are doing that exact thing.
I believe in scientific theories that seem accurate based on empirical testing and hold philosophical beliefs that stand up to the rigorous examination of reason. It is as a result of employing reason and advances in science that I'm an atheist. 'Believing' in induction seems drastically different to holding a belief in an unobservable divine entity. Anyway, I know this is all very far removed from the original topic and I have to leg it! Thanks for the transatlantic chat.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:59 PM   #212
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Originally posted by martha


No, but I'm not trying to change school curricula to suit my exclusionary religious beliefs.


but you should.

for whenever there is something that isn't in perfect accordance with exclusionary religious beliefs, then you are oppressing those with exclusionary religious beliefs and imposing on their freedom to practice their religion as they see fit.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:00 PM   #213
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Originally posted by martha


You are hilarious.

And, as usual, full of the same absolutes as those you mock.
Okay then quantify God and find the answers to some questions, how was God able to create the world, how does God direct the energy and matter to make it possible for humans to emerge, how does God communicate with his prophets - is it ESP. Does God travel faster than light? Is God able to create new matter - how does he achieve this? etc.

I stipulated as we understand it, that leaves the door wide open to what we think we know about the universe being wrong and actually having God do it. That is not an absolutist position (which would be there is no God and I am 100% certain of that).
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:04 PM   #214
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Okay then quantify God and find the answers to some questions, how was God able to create the world, how does God direct the energy and matter to make it possible for humans to emerge, how does God communicate with his prophets - is it ESP. Does God travel faster than light? Is God able to create new matter - how does he achieve this? etc.
Because He's GOD.

He doesn't have to comform to your limited perceptions. Believe it or not, you personally do not know and understand everything in the universe.

Hell, you don't know and understand on earth. None of us does.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:05 PM   #215
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Originally posted by Irvine511

i believe in ethics and responsibility and morality as i've come to understand it, which is certainly influenced by religion, but is not shackled to it.
Right, but what happens when you take away that religous influence.



Do they even teach in school anymore the symbolism on the reverse of our national seal? Could they if secular-progressives win the day?
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:06 PM   #216
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[i]Originally posted by Snowlock


You have to at least be equitable in this. Maybe conservatives wouldn't have had to try (and in some cases succeed) to get this into the cirriculum if liberals hadn't tried (and in most cases succeeded) to eridicate God from classrooms, holidays, goverment offices, etc. [/B]
Ok
let's truly be equitable

will you let the Science community have 15 minutes at your church service
to present their belief that humans can not possibly all come from Adam and Eve 6000 years ago, and their is no geological evidence of a whole earth flood, ...?
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:07 PM   #217
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Originally posted by martha


Because He's GOD.

He doesn't have to comform to your limited perceptions. Believe it or not, you personally do not know and understand everything in the universe.

Hell, you don't know and understand on earth. None of us does.
What are you talking about, I createed the universe and you but I don't reveal how powerful I am because it would upset the experiment, proove me wrong. How is that line or argument any less valid than the one you illustrated above?
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:08 PM   #218
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I know the first amendment is such a bitch.
This one? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

It says freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:10 PM   #219
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Originally posted by deep


Ok
let's truly be equitable

will you let the Science community have 15 minutes at your church service
to present their belief that humans can not possibly all come from Adam and Eve 6000 years ago, and their is no geological evidence of a whole earth flood, ...?
As long as they also explain how a pulsar can exist, where the dinosaurs went and show slides of the missing link? Absolutely.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:12 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Because He's GOD.

He doesn't have to comform to your limited perceptions. Believe it or not, you personally do not know and understand everything in the universe.

Hell, you don't know and understand on earth. None of us does.
"Because he's God" is far too easy an answer. This is pure religious dogma. Obviously none of us understand everything in the universe but science and reasoning can tell us that the probability is that there is no God. The onus is on the theist to prove God's existence, not on the atheist to disprove it. Saying that our minds are not sophisticated enough to comprehend God just won't do.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:12 PM   #221
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Originally posted by Snowlock


This one? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

It says freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
Tax dollars from atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Christians ad infinitum go to the US Government which then spends the money on public education; if that public education has classes that promote religious belief or a religious worldview then that is state money being used to respect and establish religion which is a violation. Religious belief gets no promotion or persecution by the state; if you want to promote a religion start a religious school with your own money.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:13 PM   #222
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Originally posted by DublinGuy


"Because he's God" is far too easy an answer. This is pure religious dogma. Obviously none of us understand everything in the universe but science and reasoning can tell us that the probability is that there is no God. The onus is on the theist to prove God's existence, not on the atheist to disprove it. Saying that our minds are not sophisticated enough to comprehend God just won't do.
next you will attack my faith in the Tooth Fairy, Santa and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:14 PM   #223
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Originally posted by Snowlock


As long as they also explain how a pulsar can exist, where the dinosaurs went and show slides of the missing link? Absolutely.
science does not claim to have all the answers

they only present what can be supported


and

is where the dinosaurs went even in doubt?
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:19 PM   #224
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Originally posted by Snowlock


As long as they also explain how a pulsar can exist, where the dinosaurs went and show slides of the missing link? Absolutely.
Pulsars can exist as a concequence of gravity, most clades of the dinosaurs went extinct except for the aves and missing links and dead ends are all through the fossil record (from Tiktaalik to Ambulocetus) only some people never care to notice them.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:20 PM   #225
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Originally posted by DublinGuy


The onus is on the theist to prove God's existence, not on the atheist to disprove it.
I disagree with you here.
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