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Old 06-08-2007, 03:42 PM   #196
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Originally posted by Irvine511

a mandated "MERRY CHRISTMAS" from Wal-mart? yes.
Would be be offended by a mandated happy holidays from Wal-Mart?
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:46 PM   #197
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[B]
question for you:

since you value freedom, as do i, do you share my concerns about the threat to freedoms not by Islamist fundamentalist terrorism, but by that which will be done in our name to supposedly protect us from it?
You're late arriving to the "tyranny of government" party. Conservatives bought the keg. Of coarse they are both conserns. Freedom vs safety. I want a government that respects individual rights as set forth in the constitution, but I want the freedom to leave my house without fear as well. That goes for terrorism as well as domestic crime.
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or how about abroad? the whole host of ironies: we fought a war free Iraqis from Saddam's torture, then we torture people where Sadadm once did;
Rubbish. Not even close; in deed or in intention.
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We bring a war to bring democracy to the Middle East and demonstrate -- not just assert -- the fundamental superiority of Western Values and the Western Way of Life; and then we then enable chaos and genocide through our own logistical shortcomings and our historical blindness.
That's the way it appears now. What am I supposed to say? All wars look bleak at some point or another don't they? Now, things will only get better or they will get worse but no one wants the current mess.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:46 PM   #198
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That Hitchens thing was gas. Hannitty ridiculously weak.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:48 PM   #199
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Sorry, I just wrote a lengthy reply but lost it before I managed to post it so I'll write a shortened version. I can't fathom believing something just because I want to believe it because philosophy and science are too important to me. I appreciate that others do, however, and while I wouldn't attack them for it, I think that watering down the reasons for our beliefs to "Because I want to" would hinder human progress in the lon-run. With your faith vs Faith distinction, you seem to be confusing the question of a belief IN with the question of a hope THAT. Two entirely separate issues. Regarding blind faith, I agress with Kurt Vonnegut:

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!"
But you believe in philosophy and science because you want to. Philosophy at its most base level is nothing more than opinion and scientific facts can change. So you are choosing to believe in something. You're putting your faith in science and philosopy believing they will be your guide.

Keep in mind, this isn't a derogatory post; I'm not saying your way is bad or mines better or whatever. I'm just saying that despite the fact that you wouldn't believe in something just to believe in it; you actually still are doing that exact thing.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:49 PM   #200
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I never said I believe in Creationism.
Yet you post mean-spirited defenses of it.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:50 PM   #201
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And people thought this thread would get nowhere
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:50 PM   #202
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Yet you post mean-spirited defenses of it.
To counter your mean spirited defenses against it.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:51 PM   #203
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Yet you post mean-spirited defenses of it.
Have you read your own posts at all? Are you coming across as magnanimous and benign?
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:52 PM   #204
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What the hell does this mean?

No really, what are you trying to say?
God is impossible within the universe as we understand it.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:54 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


But you believe in philosophy and science because you want to. Philosophy at its most base level is nothing more than opinion and scientific facts can change. So you are choosing to believe in something. You're putting your faith in science and philosopy believing they will be your guide.


do you know how silly this is?

an inch of snow is an inch of snow is an inch of snow. i don't believe that there's an inch of snow. i take out my ruler, i measure, and i have an inch of snow.

there's nothing to believe or put faith in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:54 PM   #206
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Have you read your own posts at all? Are you coming across as magnanimous and benign?
No, but I'm not trying to change school curricula to suit my exclusionary religious beliefs.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:55 PM   #207
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And people thought this thread would get nowhere


i can provide the parameters. but i can't do the science like you can.

where have you been all day?

(or has it been night Down Under )
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:56 PM   #208
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God is impossible within the universe as we understand it.
You are hilarious.

And, as usual, full of the same absolutes as those you mock.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:57 PM   #209
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Originally posted by Snowlock


You have to at least be equitable in this. Maybe conservatives wouldn't have had to try (and in some cases succeed) to get this into the cirriculum if liberals hadn't tried (and in most cases succeeded) to eridicate God from classrooms, holidays, goverment offices, etc.
I know the first amendment is such a bitch.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:58 PM   #210
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Yeah, there is. If I tell two people there's a tiger in the bathroom, behind the closed door, the person who believes that is taking a leap of faith,
but the person who thinks that's an absolutely ridiculous suggestion for a bunch of logical reasons is still, without being able to know 100% for sure that there isn't a tiger in the bathroom until the door is opened, basing it on faith.
One just might be a more grounded faith than the other, in that one might be believing it because I say it is so and I don't normally make this shit up, and the other disbelieves based on the grounded logic that (a) where the fuck would I get a tiger from in the suburbs of Sydney (b) how the fuck would I get it into the bathroom (c) why is there no other evidence of it outside the bathroom - no trailer attached to my car, no muddy tiger prints or fur in the hallway, me being in possession of all my limbs (etc etc etc).

Not believing in a religious sense is exactly the same leap of faith as believing -
seeing as if it wasn't, it wouldn't be because you were able to actually prove the non-existence,
but you can't just as much as 'they' can't prove the existence - so it's a leap for both of you.


If someone wants to go through life wearing depends (diapers) that is their choice

being a skeptic
I will open the door and use the bathroom
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