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Old 06-08-2007, 01:59 PM   #151
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Originally posted by INDY500


They can only be referring to Original sin. From whence all human suffering can be traced.
I'm sorry but either recessive genes result in mutations and congenital defects or they do not. Their statement that there is more "sinning" these days and that's why we can't procreate with our siblings is rather self-explanatory.

I also really enjoyed their discussion re: dinosaurs. Apparently they turned carnivorous AFTER the fall. And as for their pointy teeth? That wasn't to eat meat, it was to crack coconuts open! AKA absurd.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:59 PM   #152
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Except that it doesn't sum up the theistic position very well at all. Personally, I believe in God, and Jesus and all that stuff, but I'm not sure how much of the Bible is true. I view the Garden Of Eden as a parable as do I much of especially the Old Testament stuff. You're painting a huge group of people with a very broad brush if you are saying we all believe that God appeared in the burning bush.
This was more geared towards those who believe the literal word of the bible.

And i don't see how you can believe in Creationism, yet not take the bible at it's word.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:00 PM   #153
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.There isn't much evidence
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:01 PM   #154
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So the page number matters? Or the fact that you look down on believers because some whack job said that birth defects come from sin matters?
I simply wanted to see whether those of you advocating creationism believe in this stuff. That's why I asked 2861U2 what he thought of it.

Is it tolerant of you to refer to those of the creation museum as "whack jobs?" But it's intolerant of the rest of us to think creationism is scientific garbage?
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:02 PM   #155
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Originally posted by Irvine511




Europeans are arguably free-er than Americans are.

Europe is a wonderful place to live.

i woudl argue that what holds Europeans back is not religion, or lack of religion, but on sclerotic cultural notions of what it means to be French, or German, or Italian. blood-and-soil understandings of nationality are increasingly irrelevant in the 21st century. this is where America has always done well -- we have no myth of origin. we are not from the soil of our nation. we are all immigrants, to an extent.
Nice point. I definitely think that people in Western Europe possess greater freedom than US citizens in general and I'm very glad to live in Europe but your point regarding nationality in Europe may be a valid one. Without wanting to sound too like Bono, the idea of diversity and everyone being an immigrant in the US is a great one. It just seems like a pity that things haven't quite worked out as hoped for by your 'founding fathers'.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:02 PM   #156
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All the answers have been waiting for us here at interference all along? Why have I been wasting so much time watching Oprah.

I will now alert the media
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:03 PM   #157
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Originally posted by BEAL


This was more geared towards those who believe the literal word of the bible.

And i don't see how you can believe in Creationism, yet not take the bible at it's word.
I never said I believe in Creationism.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:04 PM   #158
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Originally posted by Irvine511




Europeans are arguably free-er than Americans are.

Europe is a wonderful place to live.

i woudl argue that what holds Europeans back is not religion, or lack of religion, but on sclerotic cultural notions of what it means to be French, or German, or Italian. blood-and-soil understandings of nationality are increasingly irrelevant in the 21st century. this is where America has always done well -- we have no myth of origin. we are not from the soil of our nation. we are all immigrants, to an extent.
Actually, many of our founders regarded America as a "Second Israel." Thomas Jefferson (that little Deist) wanted the United States seal to depict the Jews leaving Egypt...as Americans left Europe.
Imagine that!
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:05 PM   #159
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Since I'm at work I'm not spending all that much time reading every word every person has said. Just skimming.

So if I put you in a bubble that you don't belong in, I'm sorry.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:06 PM   #160
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Originally posted by anitram


I simply wanted to see whether those of you advocating creationism believe in this stuff. That's why I asked 2861U2 what he thought of it.

Is it tolerant of you to refer to those of the creation museum as "whack jobs?" But it's intolerant of the rest of us to think creationism is scientific garbage?
yeah. There are degrees and context in everything; every day. It's called perspective. There are those of us who follow science until that road ends and then turn to religion to explain the world and our place in it. That doesn't mean that we also believe dancing is a sin or deformed babies come from watching HBO.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:08 PM   #161
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you look down on believers because a whack job
hey,

all work is honorable
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:09 PM   #162
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Originally posted by Snowlock


Except that it doesn't sum up the theistic position very well at all. Personally, I believe in God, and Jesus and all that stuff, but I'm not sure how much of the Bible is true. I view the Garden Of Eden as a parable as do I much of especially the Old Testament stuff. You're painting a huge group of people with a very broad brush if you are saying we all believe that God appeared in the burning bush.
I was speaking mainly of the individuals who do take it literally. Due to my being inept in terms of posting here the quote that I thought would be included didn't end up in my post! My main point was that the person who said be believed that God spoke to Jesus because it's too great not to "want to believe" seems to have an unusual belief-forming process, and that this idea of believing something becasue you want to seems to be an integral part of how theistic beliefs are formed for many, not all, theists.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:09 PM   #163
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Sure, but no one here is dfending those religions as the single one with a lock on right and wrong. No one here is saying that they should be brought back into schools. No one here is decrying that loss of their values as the dwonfall of western civilization.
You're completely exaggerating. Why?
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:12 PM   #164
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Originally posted by Snowlock


yeah. There are degrees and context in everything; every day. It's called perspective. There are those of us who follow science until that road ends and then turn to religion to explain the world and our place in it. That doesn't mean that we also believe dancing is a sin or deformed babies come from watching HBO.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:14 PM   #165
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Originally posted by DublinGuy


I was speaking mainly of the individuals who do take it literally. Due to my being inept in terms of posting here the quote that I thought would be included didn't end up in my post! My main point was that the person who said be believed that God spoke to Jesus because it's too great not to "want to believe" seems to have an unusual belief-forming process, and that this idea of believing something becasue you want to seems to be an integral part of how theistic beliefs are formed for many, not all, theists.
Believing something because you want to is also a pretty good way to describe faith in general. You'd be a pretty sad lot if you thought faith was a waste of time.

But like I said, and I've sure been guilty as well, you should watch out for painting billions of people with a single brush stroke. Not every believer is a fantatic.
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