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Old 07-13-2003, 06:03 PM   #1
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Creation/Evolution.

I was having a discussion with a friend this afternoon and we talked a little about the teaching of creationism in schools. Earlier this year there were several news stories about school in the UK which taught creationism as opposed to evolution and I know that there are some states in the US which state the evolution can only be taught as *theory* and not as fact.

So I wondered what my fellow FYMers think about this?

Firstly - do you believe in creationism or evolution? If you could explain why you believe what you do or maybe link to a website that explains further, that would be great.

Secondly - do you think schools should be permitted to teach creationism rather than evolution? Should schools teach evolution as just one possible theory or should they teach evolution as scientific fact?
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Old 07-13-2003, 06:35 PM   #2
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Re: Creation/Evolution.

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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
I was having a discussion with a friend this afternoon and we talked a little about the teaching of creationism in schools. Earlier this year there were several news stories about school in the UK which taught creationism as opposed to evolution and I know that there are some states in the US which state the evolution can only be taught as *theory* and not as fact.

So I wondered what my fellow FYMers think about this?

Firstly - do you believe in creationism or evolution? If you could explain why you believe what you do or maybe link to a website that explains further, that would be great.

Secondly - do you think schools should be permitted to teach creationism rather than evolution? Should schools teach evolution as just one possible theory or should they teach evolution as scientific fact?
I'm not sure how mankind was created; neither one would surprise me.

Creationism absolutely should be taught in schools--in literature/philosophy/religion classes, not science classes. Creationism is pretty much scientifically untestable and so shouldn't be taught in science classes.

Evolution absolutely should be taught in science classes, but it is fair to point out the holes (they do exist) in an evolutionary account of the origins of all species. (Did you know that Francis Crick, convinced that cellular life could not have formed spontaneously on earth, published a theory hypothesizing that Earth was colonized by primitive life forms native to some other planet where the climate was conducive to prebiological evolution? See Crick, Life Itself.)
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Old 07-13-2003, 06:35 PM   #3
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1. I believe in evolution, and am very interested in the RNA World theory. You can look this up, it's a pretty hot thing right now.

2. I don't believe creationism should be taught in schools because even if the three Western traditions of Islam/Christianity/Judaism believe it, many millions (billions) of people around the world do not. A school is not an exclusive religious institution; if a parent wants their kid to learn about creationism, they can teach them about it at home or send them to sunday school. There should be no room for it in the classroom where people of different faiths and belief systems converge. If we teach creationism, why don't we teach about the Hindu beliefs of world creation/destruction cycles?

ETA: I was referring to teaching it as scientific theory. As speedracer said, within the context of a religion/philosophy class, it's fine.
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Old 07-13-2003, 06:56 PM   #4
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I never thought too much about the creaton of the universe, from my feelings it's a combo of both things, created universe which was changed by evolution but that's just a feeling, i wouldn't defend this one.

Imho no matter if you believe in the Biblical story or in the Science story, it's both impossible to proof, we can't study 5-10 creations of universes and learn how universes tend to start existing in general.

It's like you watch 2 seconds of a movie in the cinema somewhere in the middle, and from the 2 seconds you try to interpolate how the movie started... well we can do that for some hollywood movies, because they tend to be all the same ) but seriousely, i don't think that you can KNOW how it started, you can only believe..

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Old 07-13-2003, 07:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


If we teach creationism, why don't we teach about the Hindu beliefs of world creation/destruction cycles?

I'm not too familiar with Hindu beliefs, but it is scientifically plausible that the expansion of the universe could stop and that the collected matter of the universe could collapse under its own gravitational weight, leading to a big crunch and another big bang.
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Old 07-13-2003, 07:01 PM   #6
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As a teacher I can tell you that problem and questions make awesome curriculum. I think they all should be brought up; then have the kids reseach it and explore for themselves. This'd make a great English/math/history/science project. Course, it might lead to them thinking and questioning for themselves, so I doubt it will happen.

To answer your question, I have no clue. I believe God did whatever has taken place, but we constantly seem to be learningn so much more that I don't know how any of it can rightly be called more than theory.



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Old 07-13-2003, 08:10 PM   #7
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Re: Re: Creation/Evolution.

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Originally posted by speedracer


I'm not sure how mankind was created; neither one would surprise me.

Creationism absolutely should be taught in schools--in literature/philosophy/religion classes, not science classes. Creationism is pretty much scientifically untestable and so shouldn't be taught in science classes.

Evolution absolutely should be taught in science classes, but it is fair to point out the holes (they do exist) in an evolutionary account of the origins of all species. (Did you know that Francis Crick, convinced that cellular life could not have formed spontaneously on earth, published a theory hypothesizing that Earth was colonized by primitive life forms native to some other planet where the climate was conducive to prebiological evolution? See Crick, Life Itself.)
I actually agree with you. Religion has no place in schools as a "religion" class, but, rather, I think that philosophy has its place in schools, which is painfully omitted these days. Teaching how religion has influenced philosophy--just as modernism and postmodernism has--would certainly shed some light as to why our culture is the way it is today.

However, I also think that people are flat out too lazy to teach stuff this way. Education is still too humanist at its core (yet another reason as to why we need to teach philosophy), and it still demands definitive "answers" / "Truth." On the contrary, as much as we "know" today, the less we actually have answers for; just theories that may or may not be disproved down the road.

BTW, I believe in a form of evolution, not necessarily strict Darwinism. I believe that creationism is a load of bullshit, but that God still had His hand in creation--through creating the process of evolution.

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Old 07-13-2003, 09:37 PM   #8
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I believe in evolution. However, I also believe that God was involved, somehow, in the development of human beings and other living beings. It's so amazing that only God could have done it.
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Old 07-14-2003, 05:14 AM   #9
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Klaus:

i forgot the school statement: so seems like we can't teach "the truth" becasue we don't know it.
So why not teaching all theories and comparing them to each other?

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Old 07-14-2003, 06:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
So why not teaching all theories and comparing them to each other?
Because creationism is not a scientific theory. It would be like teaching people that the world was created by little green men whose flatulence particles formed the world. You certainly can't prove that's wrong, now can you?

Like it or not, evolution is the theory that has the science behind it. It's not perfect, but it's what the evidence points to currently. Creationism? It wouldn't even be in our public consciousness, if it weren't in the Bible. Since creationism takes a whole five minutes to teach, let parents who believe it teach their children at home. It has no place in schools.

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Old 07-14-2003, 08:27 AM   #11
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Well if the theory is consistent in itself and there are enough folowers - why not?

Science is far from absolute truth, i see that every day, most of the time we're talking about thereories, "mights" and "coulds" but in the pressmap later they are presented as facts

If you try to evaluate things that hapened several million years before you it's most of the time also just a "mind game" like the green men whos ... particles.. .

There are exelent therories for evolution floating around, interesting is that the verry famous researches refuse that other scientists take their bones to the lab for a 2nd resarch for a verification/falsification. So.. excelent theories but from a scientific approach: i would look ouf for a new job if my bos would do "science" in such a way.

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Old 07-14-2003, 11:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
1. I believe in evolution, and am very interested in the RNA World theory. You can look this up, it's a pretty hot thing right now.

2. I don't believe creationism should be taught in schools because even if the three Western traditions of Islam/Christianity/Judaism believe it, many millions (billions) of people around the world do not. A school is not an exclusive religious institution; if a parent wants their kid to learn about creationism, they can teach them about it at home or send them to sunday school. There should be no room for it in the classroom where people of different faiths and belief systems converge. If we teach creationism, why don't we teach about the Hindu beliefs of world creation/destruction cycles?

ETA: I was referring to teaching it as scientific theory. As speedracer said, within the context of a religion/philosophy class, it's fine.
I fully agree with this post.

I will say, however, that the religion/philosophy classes may only happen at the college level, unless at private religious high schools and below, not at public ones.

Quote:
As a teacher I can tell you that problem and questions make awesome curriculum. I think they all should be brought up;
This concerns me a little because you have to keep church and state seperated at all costs. When you don't, parents come in demanding creationism be taught and that is outright wrong...
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:13 PM   #13
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I just see no reason why creationism and evolution can't go hand in hand (well if you don't take creationsm literally word by word.... it actually goes very well with Evolution)
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by bayernfc
I just see no reason why creationism and evolution can't go hand in hand (well if you don't take creationsm literally word by word.... it actually goes very well with Evolution)

how?


one deals with the idea that a God of some kind created humans, and one says that we evolved from animals.

how can these go hand in hand?
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:46 PM   #15
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It does say God of some kind created humans ..... but does it say how? He could have created us in millions of years through evolution from animals which still doesn't rule out the creationist theory of Humans coming from the earth...... Do you see what I'm getting at?
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