could fundamental extremism be linked to poverty? :gasp: - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-28-2006, 11:05 PM   #1
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could fundamental extremism be linked to poverty? :gasp:

Quote:
The head of an Afghan NGO said he believed 60-70 % of those fighting were economically motivated, while 10% were real believers, ideologically motivated jihadis who wanted to bring back the Islamic emirate of the Taleban.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme..._4/4755222.stm

could it be?
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Old 02-28-2006, 11:56 PM   #2
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But you see, conservative think tanks look for any reason BUT poverty to blame for all the ills of the world.

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Old 03-01-2006, 01:46 AM   #3
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Poverty, or someone financing a rebellion. Looking at this as a pure economic problem leads to one side having to out-bid the other to pay for war or peace.
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Old 03-01-2006, 02:31 AM   #4
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How many of the September 11 hijackers, Madrid or London bombers were poor?
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Old 03-01-2006, 09:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
How many of the September 11 hijackers, Madrid or London bombers were poor?
thanks for pointing out the obvious and attempting to isolate discussion of the issue to only 3 examples. good science, indeed. if not poverty, then what is playing a role in the taliban's latest recruitment effort? you could post some useful information or opinions or perhaps you might want to call up the bbc and let them know your answer. less facts, more truthiness maybe.

here are a few interesting quotes to throw into the blender:

World Bank President James Wolfensohn said that “the face of bin Laden, the terrorism of al-Qaeda, the rubble of the World Trade Center and of the Pentagon ... are just symptoms. The disease is the discontent seething in Islam and, more generally, in the world of the poor.”

President Bush has called the war on terrorism a “struggle against hateful groups that exploit poverty and despair.”

"Poverty in all its forms is the greatest single threat to peace, security, democracy, human rights and the environment," the head of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), Michael Moore, told delegates.


now, surely no one expects me to quote these men regularly, but it seems even those at the top of established society see what could be happening behind the scenes. normally i would've thought you'd be suckling away at the proverbial teats of these guys, a_w, good show old chap. i guess you really do think they are all just off the fucking rocker and hiding in your closet with frank the monkey, waiting for the perfect chance to take away your freedoms.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en

President Bush has called the war on terrorism a “struggle against hateful groups that exploit poverty and despair.”
How self-aware do you think he was when he made that statement?
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:10 AM   #7
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Maybe none of the big shots responsible for 9/11 were poor, but there are people who will join the fundamentalists in a heartbeat if someone waves money in their face.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Maybe none of the big shots responsible for 9/11 were poor, but there are people who will join the fundamentalists in a heartbeat if someone waves money in their face.
Is that a macro economic problem, a problem with people waiving the money, or a problem with the individuals who see the insurgency/terrorist group as a legitimate job choice?
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:19 PM   #9
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It's a problem with the people waving the money in the faces of desperately poor people, because they are the misanthropic leaders of the fundamentalists out to bomb us into oblivion, and the people who are getting money waved in their faces because they'd rather get that nice big fat paycheck than starve. I'll bet those paychecks look awfully attractive.
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:22 PM   #10
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So, do you stop those who fund insurgency/terrorist groups, or outbid them?
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
So, do you stop those who fund insurgency/terrorist groups, or outbid them?
What's the difference?

Especially when funding one anti-terrorist group creates a new, more powerful one.
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:58 PM   #12
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Economic, social and political inequality, in various forms and to varying degrees, can usually be identified as an aggravating factor in almost any violent conflict. Northern Ireland, Bosnia-Herzegovina and the riots which killed thousands in the Indian state of Gujarat a few years back (in which many if not most of the Hindu participants were well-off middle-class nationalists) could all be cited as examples of conflicts where various forms of inequality play(ed) a role among combatants overall far better off then the average Afghan peasant. On the other hand, most of the world's poorest countries are *not* currently plagued with such conflicts despite having plenty of ethic and religious potential fault lines, so clearly there are other factors involved in lighting the fuse.

I doubt that "fundamentalist extremism" has ever accurately summed up the motives of most participants in factional conflicts in Afghanistan, but poverty alone doesn't do a much better job of explaining things--the Nothern Alliance fighters were all poor too, and didn't generally understand their goals in terms of fighting economic injustice. Reducing these kinds of conflicts to tussles over inequality is ultimately kind of circular thinking--you are never going to find a country where everyone agrees that all citizens are equally well-off, economically or otherwise. That doesn't mean inequality isn't a powerful aggravant, but history doesn't provide much support for the theory that improving economic conditions alone is a reliable guarantor of peace.
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Old 03-01-2006, 02:21 PM   #13
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Poverty is a breeding ground for extremists, but it also has to be said that poverty is not a justification to commit crimes.

I will always be siding with the poor. In 90% of the cases however the poor people also have other chances. I´ve seen that in some poor countries I visited. The gang that did the armed robbery in Nicaragua wasn´t particularly poor; same for the Afro-Americans that robbed me in SFO.

Poverty is not an excuse to engage in terrorist activity.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:47 PM   #14
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does poverty lead to terrorism? not necessarily. does it make the potential terrorists harder to beat or stop? definitely.

there is something noteworthy about fundamentalist terrorist, with the exception of their rich leaders. here's the catch: they have very little to lose. they are not looking forward to setting up a family, buying a house, starting a business or purchasing a new car. they have very little in their hands, and their hopes and dreams are even less significant in comparison.

the best way to curb the extremist movement: give them something to lose.

no sane person, if they have a family, comfortable living standards, a job, a home, maybe a car, would go out and blow themselves up. its simply not worth it.
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Old 03-01-2006, 06:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
does poverty lead to terrorism? not necessarily. does it make the potential terrorists harder to beat or stop? definitely.

there is something noteworthy about fundamentalist terrorist, with the exception of their rich leaders. here's the catch: they have very little to lose. they are not looking forward to setting up a family, buying a house, starting a business or purchasing a new car. they have very little in their hands, and their hopes and dreams are even less significant in comparison.

the best way to curb the extremist movement: give them something to lose.

no sane person, if they have a family, comfortable living standards, a job, a home, maybe a car, would go out and blow themselves up. its simply not worth it.
ok generally I agree..

but I doubt the last sentence..

no sane person would go out and blow themselves up also if they don´t have all of what you mentioned. how much is life itself and happiness worth, without all these things?
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