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Old 01-09-2002, 03:48 AM   #16
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adam's_mistress, thanks for your well-written reply. I, too, respect your opinion, but I stand by mine. Let me address some of the things you wrote.

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Originally posted by adam's_mistress:
Klodomir you've brought up some really good points and I respect your opinion - but also remember that no parent no matter how hard they try, is never perfect.
I would never claim that it is possible to be the perfect parent, but I believe that it is every parent's responsibility to be the best parent they can be, and I think that spanking - even if it makes you feel bad - is the "easy" way out.
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Parents can look to books and professionals for guidance, but books as well as professionals are not privvy to every child's behavioral patterns 24/7.
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Unless you know the parent and the child or have seen first hand how they can or cannot diplomatically handle a situation where punishment may be part of the resolve, you have no right to pass judgement.
I disagree. You see, as I stated in my first post, the whole pro-spanking argument hangs on "you don't know my child", and that's just not good enough. Let me use an extreme example to illustrate - with the disclaimer that I'm not saying that it's the same thing, or insinuating anything about anyone: There are people in this world who have sex with their children and claim that their children like it, so it should be nobody's business. There is no blood-test in the world that can prove that incest is bad for children, so should we just sit back and trust those people when they say that they know their children better than we do? Similarly, there is no way of physically proving that spanking is bad for children, but does that mean that it should just be accepted, especially when we can see that millions of parents don't do it and raise perfectly fine children?

The proof of the pudding is in the countries where spanking is forbidden by law. That option has been taken away from them, so they have to pursue other avenues - they have to try a bit harder.

Now, I completely agree with what you said about manipulation and how some parents give in, but at the end you seem to equal no spankings to out-of-control behaviour, and that simply inaccurate.
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Children are smarter than we think, and by the age of 1 year old are already exploring the avenue of cause and effect. It is part of their social development to "test" or "push their parents' buttons"
I'm guessing that you're not saying that 1-year-olds should be spanked, but if you do, please let me know, and I'll address that later. But let me say this - yes, kids "push their parents' buttons", we all know that, but it's the parents' responsibility to keep their heads cool. Think about it, if you have brothers and sisters, or if you have more than one child, how many times have you heard or said, "Now, X, you're older and bigger than Y, so you have to act responsibly." Well, in the case of parents, how much older an bigger can you get? Parents are the most important role model to young children, and which lesson would you rather be teaching them? "Aha, so if I'm mad at someone, I can just hit them!", or "If I'm mad at someone, I can take their privileges away/argue with them/leave them alone to consider the error of their ways etc. etc."?

Of course, parents need to be able to lay down the law sometimes. At some point you get sick of explaining the same thing over and over again, and a good "Because I said so!" never hurt anyone. But a spanking is still unnecessary. I think parents who can discipline their child in other, more appropriate ways show much more strength of character than someone who has to resort to physical punishment of a person much smaller than themselves.
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Kids at young ages, namely before 7-10 years old, simply do not have the social skills needed to reason with adults in situations where any kind of punishment is inevitable.
I really don't understand what you're saying here. You were just telling us about how smart children as young as 1 year old are, and now schoolchildren can't be reasoned with? Of course they can. But sometimes they just won't accept what you're saying, and that's when parents have the right to lay down the law, as I previously stated. But maybe we misunderstood each other. I talked about parents reasoning with kids, you talk about kids reasoning with parents. I wasn't referring to children's ability to talk their way out of punishment, but to parents' responsibility.
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There needs to be balance, and that's not something that can be found in the pages of Dr. Spock, but in first hand experience only.
Agreed, but I still believe that it is every parent's responsibility to educate him- or herself. Just copying what one's own parents did is not the way. You live and learn.
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You make it seem as though every good intentioned parent who swats their kids on rare occasion is an evil, ignorant, abuse monger who is in dire need of anger management counseling.
I really think that that is an unfair statement, but please quote back to me where I implied that. In the meantime, I'll quote myself:
Quote:
Originally posted by Klodomir:
Now, I'm not saying that parents who spank their children don't love them, all I'm saying is that they're not trying hard enough.
In closing, let me say that I have no doubt that you are a good parent, but as I said above, we all live and learn (hopefully). It worries me that most parents are willing to admit to insecurities about many other aspects of child-rearing, but you never hear anyone expressing doubts about whether they are doing the right thing when they spank their children. That suggests to me that they are not thinking about it enough. Seeking information and advice is a good thing in any area of life, but especially when someone else's life is in your hands.
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Old 01-09-2002, 03:51 AM   #17
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KhanadaRhodes, I also wanted to thank you for your replies. I see we agree.
Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes:
i just think it would be a lot easier to talk things out with your child instead of just smacking them.
Well, maybe not easier, but certainly better.
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