Cops: Texas teen tried to flush newborn

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Infinity

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A 14-year-old girl gave birth in a restroom at her junior high, and the baby boy cried once before she tried to flush him down the toilet, killing him, officials said Thursday.

An autopsy confirmed the baby was alive when born Wednesday at Cedar Bayou Junior High in Baytown, near Houston. The boy was probably full term and cried before the mother, an eighth-grader, tried to flush him, said police Lt. Eric Freed.

The mother was taken to a hospital. People who knew her at school said she wore baggy clothing, and nobody suspected she was pregnant, The Houston Chronicle reported Thursday.

School officials learned of her pregnancy when another student who was in the restroom while the eighth-grader was in labor went to ask the school nurse for help, said Kathy Clausen, spokeswoman for Baytown's Goose Creek school district.

The nurse and an assistant principal ran to the bathroom, discovered the girl had given birth and called 911.

Authorities have not announced what charges the girl will face, if any. Killing an infant is a capital crime in Texas, but 14-year-olds are too young to be eligible for the death penalty, said Geoffrey Corn, an assistant professor at South Texas College of Law.

The infant died just three days after another 14-year-old girl delivered a stillborn fetus in the bathroom of an airplane on her way back to Houston from a middle-school field trip.

Baytown is about 25 miles east of Houston.

:scream: :no: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
 
You know, I can't even discuss crimes involving little babies. I'm completely irrational about them. There's a part of me that wants to explain it, that these young girls who do this are little more than babies themselves, that they're out of their minds, that they're not consciously murdering their babies...but on the other hand I want to go on a cuss-laden rant that won't do anyone any good.

I guess it's a tragedy more than anything else. How do you prevent this? How do you keep these girls from getting all the way to term without anyone noticing and stepping in?
 
While I do find these stories to be horrific and while I agree that these girls must be made to take responsibility for their actions, my heart goes out to the fourteen year old girls who go so completely ignored that their parents are unaware that they are nine months pregnant.

I think what happens is that once a child hits a certain age it might seem to some parents that they are ready to start taking care of themselves and making important decisions when in reality no one is more in need of guidance than a fourteen year old girl.
 
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Charming.

Sorry. I don't care who you are or what upbringing you've had. To flush a crying baby down a toilet denotes an utter lack of humanity.
 
nathan1977 said:
Charming.

Sorry. I don't care who you are or what upbringing you've had. To flush a crying baby down a toilet denotes an utter lack of humanity.

Maybe this girl has had an "utter lack of humanity" inflicted upon her throughout her short life, and that's the only sort of behaviour she knows.

I would think that some Christian charity would apply in this situation, rather than judgment.
 
I don't think anyone was trying to excuse this behaviour, just shed some light on the fact that are obviously some other HUGE issues involved here...

A blind person could see that.
 
VintagePunk said:

I would think that some Christian charity would apply in this situation, rather than judgment.

How about Christian charity for the baby who was flushed down the toilet?

Sorry. There is justifiable, understandable, forgiveable behavior. This is not it.
 
nathan1977 said:


How about Christian charity for the baby who was flushed down the toilet?

Sorry. There is justifiable, understandable, forgiveable behavior. This is not it.

I'm not saying it's not a tragic situation all the way around, but doesn't the fact that a 14 year old could carry a baby to term without anyone knowing set off alarm bells for you as to what her life may have been like? No? Okay then, burn the witch!

:|
 
At some point people are responsible for their actions. At 14 years old, I'm pretty sure you're aware that you are committing murder. That is what this girl has done.
 
nathan1977 said:


There is justifiable, understandable, forgiveable behavior. This is not it.

As a Christian, aren't you supposed to forgive everyone and everything, regardless of what the behavior is? Isn't that what the Bible says?

Yes, what this girl did was horrific, but something drove her to do that. Maybe she was terrified of someone finding out she had a baby. Maybe society's reaction or her parents' reaction to a pregnant teenager drove her. Maybe something biochemical affected her.

I am not saying we should excuse this girl as though nothing happened, but if you're saying you are a committed Christian, you should practice all of it, not some of it.
 
Pearl said:


As a Christian, aren't you supposed to forgive everyone and everything, regardless of what the behavior is? Isn't that what the Bible says?

Yes, what this girl did was horrific, but something drove her to do that. Maybe she was terrified of someone finding out she had a baby. Maybe society's reaction or her parents' reaction to a pregnant teenager drove her. Maybe something biochemical affected her.

I am not saying we should excuse this girl as though nothing happened, but if you're saying you are a committed Christian, you should practice all of it, not some of it.

I was going to say the same exact thing... :up:
 
Pearl said:


As a Christian, aren't you supposed to forgive everyone and everything, regardless of what the behavior is? Isn't that what the Bible says?

Yes, what this girl did was horrific, but something drove her to do that. Maybe she was terrified of someone finding out she had a baby. Maybe society's reaction or her parents' reaction to a pregnant teenager drove her. Maybe something biochemical affected her.

I am not saying we should excuse this girl as though nothing happened, but if you're saying you are a committed Christian, you should practice all of it, not some of it.

Let's consider the baby who was murdered, shall we? Let's consider the girl who not only gave birth to the child, but also flushed the crying newborn down the toilet. Let's consider the humanity (or complete lack thereof) in that moment. Yes, let's not judge the person who apparently had no problem flushing another human being down a toilet. Yes, let's.

If you want to discuss the Christianity of defending the most defenseless of human beings, Jesus said things like, "Those who lead children astray should be dropped off a cliff with a millstone around their neck." (Mark 9:42) Doesn't sound very Christian, does it? But if true religion is to look after the case of the widow and the orphan (James 1:27), and someone murders them, what shall we then do? Laws are in place for a reason -- to protect the innocent (Romans 13), and there is nothing more innocent than a newborn baby.

This girl is going to be fine as far as the state is concerned. She's a minor. She's not going to be prosecuted for murder. At worst she will be put in some kind of juvenile detention until she's 18. We're talking about a newborn baby -- born alive, mind you, we're not even talking about a fetus -- who was flushed, crying, down the toilet.

Forgiveness does not excuse one from their crime.
 
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nathan1977 said:


Let's consider the baby who was murdered, shall we? Let's consider the girl who not only gave birth to the child, but also flushed the crying newborn down the toilet. Let's consider the humanity (or complete lack thereof) in that moment.

Forgiveness does not pretty up a crime or somehow justify it.

No one is forgetting about this child, and no one stated forgiveness justifies a thing. :huh:
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


No one is forgetting about this child, and no one stated forgiveness justifies a thing. :huh:

Ah, but we're pretty quick to defend the girl, aren't we? Is it because we're uncomfortable thinking about her as a murderer? Because that is what she did.
 
nathan1977 said:


Ah, but we're pretty quick to defend the girl, aren't we? Is it because we're uncomfortable thinking about her as a murderer? Because that is what she did.

Exactly who defended her?
 
See the litany of justification above involved in rationalizing why she did what she did -- a poor home life, neglectful parents, chemical imbalance, etc. There has been more sympathy expressed in this thread for the "poor girl" who flushed her baby down the toilet, than the dead baby itself. And interestingly, the sympathy for the dead baby seems to be remarkably back-handed -- "While this is obviously a shame..." etc.
 
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nathan1977 said:
See the litany of justification above involved in rationalizing why she did what she did -- a poor home life, neglectful parents, chemical imbalance, etc. There has been more sympathy expressed in this thread for the "poor girl" who flushed her baby down the toilet, than the dead baby itself.

We're not trying to justify anything! We're trying to make sense of this tragedy. I'm sure everyone here feels like screaming in agony over what the baby went through, and are wondering what could be done to prevent such a thing from happening again.
 
nathan1977 said:
See the litany of justification above involved in rationalizing why she did what she did -- a poor home life, neglectful parents, chemical imbalance, etc.

And that's defending?:huh:

You aren't a lawyer are you?
 
nathan1977 said:
There has been more sympathy expressed in this thread for the "poor girl" who flushed her baby down the toilet, than the dead baby itself. And interestingly, the sympathy for the dead baby seems to be remarkably back-handed -- "While this is obviously a shame..." etc.

I find this to be complete BS...
 
there are multiple tragedies here.

one of which is the death of a baby (for some reason, i had thought it was stillborn when i first heard about this), in a horrific manner.

the other tragedy is that this is a girl who was pregnant at 14, and no one noticed? she had no one to tell? did she fear she'd be beaten, abused, disowned, if she told someone?
 
Are we willing to call murder a crime, or aren't we? If we're not, then who honestly cares why she did it? Bad stuff happens. C'est la vie.
 
nathan1977 said:
See the litany of justification above involved in rationalizing why she did what she did -- a poor home life, neglectful parents, chemical imbalance, etc. There has been more sympathy expressed in this thread for the "poor girl" who flushed her baby down the toilet, than the dead baby itself. And interestingly, the sympathy for the dead baby seems to be remarkably back-handed -- "While this is obviously a shame..." etc.





i think you're putting motivation behind certain comments that aren't totally warranted.
 
Irvine511 said:
there are multiple tragedies here.

one of which is the death of a baby (for some reason, i had thought it was stillborn when i first heard about this), in a horrific manner.

the other tragedy is that this is a girl who was pregnant at 14, and no one noticed? she had no one to tell? did she fear she'd be beaten, abused, disowned, if she told someone?

No. One is a tragedy. One is a crime. Which is it?
 
nathan1977 said:
Are we willing to call murder a crime, or aren't we? If we're not, then who honestly cares why she did it? Bad stuff happens. C'est la vie.



what is it you're looking for here? death penalty?
 
nathan1977 said:
Are we willing to call murder a crime, or aren't we?
If we're not, then who honestly cares why she did it? Bad stuff happens. C'est la vie.

Death is death, but you do realize our society has different categories of murder don't you?

Has one person said anything about this not being a crime?

Man you really read into things...:eyebrow:
 
nathan1977 said:
See the litany of justification above involved in rationalizing why she did what she did -- a poor home life, neglectful parents, chemical imbalance, etc. There has been more sympathy expressed in this thread for the "poor girl" who flushed her baby down the toilet, than the dead baby itself. And interestingly, the sympathy for the dead baby seems to be remarkably back-handed -- "While this is obviously a shame..." etc.

No, it's called 'not engaging in black and white thinking.'

Okay, let's look at this from another perspective, and maybe that'll help you see what we're trying to say?

You state that the girl will be fine, with minimum punishment. If that's the case, which I'm not convinced it is, the article only says that she's not eligible for the death penalty (thank goodness for small mercies, given that it took place in killing-happy Texas), not that she won't be punished. But, say your scenario is correct, she gets a slap on the wrist, and is free when she's 18. Wouldn't it be in society's best interest to find out the root cause of this, and try to rehabilitate her to prevent her from performing another crime down the road? Or, like Pearl suggested, that we look at these cases in order to prevent it from happening with other young girls?

Or should we just wring our hands, mourn the death of the babies, proclaim the young mothers inhumane and unworthy of help, and let situations like this continue?
 
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VintagePunk said:

Or should we just wring our hands, mourn the death of the babies, proclaim the young mothers inhumane and unworthy of help, and let situations like this continue?



maybe we should flush her down the toilet.
 
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