Controversy Surrounding Rescue Me Episode - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-03-2006, 05:18 PM   #136
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
But it's not about someone seeing the episode and saying it's OK to rape someone. It's about perpetuating what many people think are outdated and false notions about rape (spousal rape, "rape fantasies", women will fight but they really want it, men will use forced sex/ rape because they feel "impotent" in their relationship with a woman-and that's ultimately OK too)-and then refusing to own up to it. I'm not asking that this show or any other show spoon feed me or anyone else anything.

They would like to sweep all of that issue under the rug by saying "you have to look at it in the context of their relationship". I don't feel I need to look at any context of any relationship to know that what I saw in that scene was brutal and a rape, regardless of how she behaved afterwards or during. He felt powerless (according to what Tolan said in that interview) so he felt powerful doing that. But it's not rape because of the context and if you don't get that well you shouldn't be watching our show. Uh, ok.


do you think the show should have been censored?
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:26 PM   #137
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I don't think they should have shown a woman being raped and then have her enjoy it somehow (from everything I've read that's what they did) and saying that shirt wasn't one of her favorites. Even if they want to show that, fine that's their "creative license" and their "artistic" freedom. But don't turn it around on the audience and say they're wrong if they see it as rape And with freedom comes responsibility-that is not censorship, usually that can be as simple as human decency. And maturity.

And they say he gets karmic payback. Well isn't that cold comfort to any woman who has been raped and it never is prosecuted. When you look at it that way, well.. From that interview the estranged wife might be pregnant as a result, am I right about that? That's the payback?
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:39 PM   #138
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ultimately, we'll all have to see the episode and judge for ourselves.
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:41 PM   #139
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Originally posted by Irvine511


ultimately, someone who sees that "rescue me" episode and thinks it's okay to rape someone, or someone who listens to Eminem and decides to gay bash has already been failed by society at so many levels that it seems like a massive cop-out to blame a single song or a single scene in a TV show for violent behavior.
You are dead on here.

I believe that saying the show is doing harm by perpetuating the rape fantasy isn't accurate. Again, you have to give the viewers some credit. Irvine has put it perfectly.

I don't think the scene should be censored. A MA rating was issued and a disclaimer was broadcast.
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:50 PM   #140
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I wonder if they'll even rerun the episode. Yes you have to see the episode, but I don't see how seeing the whole scene in context will change my mind. I don't care if that's how they always "have sex" with each other, it doesn't mean it's not rape-consenting to that 999,999 other times doesn't equal the millionth consent -implied or otherwise. And in context of their argument and his loss of control of the argument-well? That's sort of the bottom line for me regardless of context.

And I don't think I need to see the episode either to judge Leary's and Tolan's comments, they sort of speak volumes for themselves. Leary's more than Tolan's.
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Old 07-03-2006, 06:44 PM   #141
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I haven't seen the episode, and from having heard it described I'm not sure I want to. I think I would want to either throw up or punch a hole in my TV set if I did.

I think the network had every right to air the episode, but I think viewers also have every right to say they think the scene is unrealistic b.s. that reinforces damaging stereotypes. That's not censorship. That's just public debate. Who knows, maybe the whole thing will end up educating a few people.
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Old 07-04-2006, 01:37 AM   #142
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Mrs. Springsteen, what were your thoughts on my friend who was raped by her boyfriend. AliEnvy and I were talking about it near the bottom of page 8 of this thread continuing to page 9. Do you think what happened to her was rape? I always thought it was (the sex after the initial encounter).

To me the question regarding the Rescue Me episode is whether what they portrayed represents reality, whether such things actually happen in dysfunctional relationships. To know that for sure, we'd really have to see the episode to properly judge. If it was portraying something that is patently false (i.e. the "rape fantasy") then we can unleash the full wrath of our indignation on the show. It's not showing us "uncomfortable truths", it is perpetuating lies, and very damaging ones at that.

However, if what they portrayed--and let's say it was definitely rape--if what they portrayed was accurate, in that such horrible things do actually happen in dysfunctional relationships like theirs, then I don't know that we can argue that they "shouldn't have shown it" at least if we're supporting the artists' freedom of expression. I agree with other posters that viewers don't have to like it or want to watch it, but I don't know that we can say the show was "wrong" just because what we saw was sickening.

It's kind of like if someone makes a movie about Hitler and they show the "human" side of him. Invariably people will get angry. We don't want to be reminded that Hitler was human, we want to think of him as a monster. To concede his humanity almost seems to somehow excuse what he did. And we don't want to do that.

The tricky thing is when we see things that we don't want to be true.
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Old 07-04-2006, 02:13 AM   #143
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so this is wrong, but an artist who paints a graphic picture is 7ust expressing his freedom of expression?

is freedom of expression all or nothing or all or somewhat?
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Old 07-04-2006, 10:24 AM   #144
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways


But what responsibility is that?

Daytime soaps have been using similar story lines for years. Granted, they are not as graphic as this one and that doesn't make it "right" but I'm not sure what a responsibility a television show has.

Then it would be perfectly alright to show a gratuitous lynching or a gratuitous Matthew Shepherd type killing, without any plot development or commentary, just a throwaway scene? I'm not comparing these hypothetical situations to an episode I haven't seen, or even murder to rape. I'm just interested in seeing how far the implications of a television show having no responsibility will go before more people are uncomfortable.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:22 AM   #145
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That's an interesting question Bono's Saint and sort of the bottom line of what I was getting at. I think you raise a valid question.

Did anyone watch Rescue Me last night? I guess the "karmic payback" was that she raped him, she said after "payback is a bitch". You'd have to see the scene but my impression was that they were trying to portray what she did to him as the equivalent of what he did to her-it wasn't nearly as violent, it was very aggressive sexually but also not in the middle of any kind of argument at all. She went to his place and had her coat on and just lingerie under it. He didn't fight her off at all and he said something after like "that was great". I was so tired by the end that my memory is sort of foggy about it and I was surfing to the All Star Game too.

Another aspect of that show I thought about last night-they can and do who all kinds of graphic sex and rape/not rape depending on your view-but they never show anyone using condoms, or even imply that they are (I know they can't actually show that). Interesting.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:39 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
what were your thoughts on my friend who was raped by her boyfriend. AliEnvy and I were talking about it near the bottom of page 8 of this thread continuing to page 9. Do you think what happened to her was rape? I always thought it was (the sex after the initial encounter).
Do you mean this

Quote:
Then we talked about a friend of ours that was raped by her boyfriend. We don't know for sure what happened. We think she may have been raped initially, but sexual activity continued after that. The sense we got is that she was doing a lot of things with him that she really didn't want to do, but she felt like she "had" to, otherwise he "wouldn't love her" or would "get mad." My wife feels that the kind of manipulation he had going, the power he had over, was more damaging mentally and emotionally than rape would be.
In my mind if a woman has sex that she doesn't want to have because of any kind of fear of a man-physical, emotional, or other-that is coercive and that can be classified as rape. Physical force does not have to exist, other forms of manipulation and coercion can be even more powerful sometimes. It is not consensual in the way that I would define consent, so it is rape in that way. Going along with sex for the reasons you describe can't be consensual in my mind.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:48 AM   #147
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They also mentioned U2 and Bono in last night's episode, in a very odd way. One of the firefighters takes too many Ambien-like pills and goes sleepwalking/sleepeating-gets a parking ticket and is so out of it he says to the officer something like "oh a ticket, can you get me U2 tickets for the Garden, for my Mom too-she loves Bono, it's the world hunger thing"

Just thought I'd randomly throw that in this thread

To me the most interesting storyline in my sporadic viewing of that show is the firefighter and his gay roommate.

Denis Leary was also nominated for an Emmy, don't know what other noms they received.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:48 AM   #148
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And wouldn't you know the one time I miss the show I was out last night at an ol' U2 hangout.
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:38 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

Did anyone watch Rescue Me last night? I guess the "karmic payback" was that she raped him, she said after "payback is a bitch". You'd have to see the scene but my impression was that they were trying to portray what she did to him as the equivalent of what he did to her-it wasn't nearly as violent, it was very aggressive sexually but also not in the middle of any kind of argument at all. She went to his place and had her coat on and just lingerie under it. He didn't fight her off at all and he said something after like "that was great". I was so tired by the end that my memory is sort of foggy about it and I was surfing to the All Star Game too.

Another aspect of that show I thought about last night-they can and do who all kinds of graphic sex and rape/not rape depending on your view-but they never show anyone using condoms, or even imply that they are (I know they can't actually show that). Interesting.
In light of what you saw last night, are you still inclined to call the first instance rape?

I know that many will not agree with me, but your description of last night reinforces my instincts regarding the first incident(keeping in mind that I've not seen either, just read the descriptions) - that it's part of a dysfunctional pattern of a warring couple who both use sex as a means of control and manipulation. Interpersonally healthy? Probably not, but in my view, not rape, either.

Regarding condom use/safe sex, not many programs depict that, unless it's explicitly a plot point of the show.

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


In my mind if a woman has sex that she doesn't want to have because of any kind of fear of a man-physical, emotional, or other-that is coercive and that can be classified as rape. Physical force does not have to exist, other forms of manipulation and coercion can be even more powerful sometimes. It is not consensual in the way that I would define consent, so it is rape in that way. Going along with sex for the reasons you describe can't be consensual in my mind.
I have a problem wrapping my head around this definition, especially the emotional coercion part. It's too broad, in my view. So many women do have sex for the wrong reasons, and this is especially predominant in younger women, who might not be as assertive as women who are more experienced. Defining a scenario where one goes along with sex out of fear of loss of affection as rape is harsh. Poor judgement on the part of the woman, certainly, but not rape. I also think it victimizes women by propagating the mindset that women are weak, fickle, and easily manipulated. IMO, it would be much more empowering for females to own up to making a bad sexual decision, learn from it, move on and never repeat it. It's taking responsibility for your own actions, rather than playing the victim card.
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Old 07-12-2006, 04:03 PM   #150
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I still havent seen the first episode but my take on it, my first impression would be that Tommy would never see the second instance as rape because he didn't see the first one as rape.

I agree with you about women not playing the victim card and all that, but I can't agree that all instances of sex in that type of scenario amount to bad sexual decisions. Some do, but some are the result of coercion and manipulation that is a form of rape. I would never say that bad decisions don't exist and that women shouldn't own up to them, but for me those can and do exist outside the framework of emotionally abusive relationships. Those relationships involve power and control and sex can be used as a form of power and control in them. Sex used in that way is rape/a form of rape to me, even if it doesn't fall within the legal or technical definition.
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