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Old 01-23-2005, 01:08 PM   #121
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Also, it is a fact that homosexuals are statistically more likely to have HIV, and that's a fact

This statement is revealing.

Why is it part of your thought process?


Members of your congregation or family are statistically more likely to be obese and die of heart disease than Hindus, just a fact.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:09 PM   #122
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Sorry the HIV part was meant for another thread
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:10 PM   #123
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Some have already done this figuratively,

converting it to "trash" by using it to defend / promote bigotry.
This makes sense if we look to you as the final word on right and wrong.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:11 PM   #124
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Macfistowannabe; do you 'really' think that God 'designed' marriage solely for the purposes of pro-creation? That reads to me something more animal than human. After alll, animals don't need to be married in order to procreate - they do it anyway. I'm sure you'll agree that its more than just pro-creation when it comes to humans, and the 'typical liberal approach' which you seem to have cited must surely consider that, since it offers another approach from the usual specimens of pro-creation that we all are, if you read it your way.
Not "solely" but I believe that we have reproductive organs, and the purpose of those, is to reproduce. We aren't exactly animals, I would hope that our society would promote a higher standard than saying "well if animals do it, I guess it's okay" on a lot of issues.

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Also, don't you find it remotely insulting for couples who decide not to have children, or, even worse, for couples who 'can't' have children?

There must be more to a human relationship than the ability to inseminate someone.

Ant.

P.S - Macfistowannabe, you were doing a lot better before that comment.
Those who choose not to have children, for whatever reason, as long as they would give unwanted children away for adoption and such if they became pregnant, I can understand that. Couples who can't have children, I would think, would adopt children even if they aren't the natural parents.

There IS more than inseminating people, it's showing them love, compassion, moral principles, and obedience. However, I do believe that instead of stating the profound, unproven "born gay" propaganda, give someone hope that they can find relief through medicines, counseling, and faith. How can you believe in miracles if you believe that people cannot overcome obstacles?

In general, I think of explaining my doctorine on God's institution for heterosexual marriage to those who accept the secularized liberal doctorine as trying to explain what they make to be an optical illusion. They have their views, and I have mine. They are hypocritical as well, they do not practice the "tolerance" they preach of, and rather, label conservatives as "bigots", "homophobes", and "hateful". The activists have me convinced that they are every bit as hypocritical as Dobson.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:12 PM   #125
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This makes sense if we look to you as the final word on right and wrong.

Well, one thing you should know about me,

I won't say, "My dad can beat up your dad."
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:12 PM   #126
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Members of your congregation or family are statistically more likely to be obese and die of heart disease than Hindus, just a fact.
Is that a theological statement, or a cultural one?
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:15 PM   #127
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Is that a theological statement, or a cultural one?
Ahh, separation of church and state.

GOOD QUESTION, THOUGH!
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:16 PM   #128
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How is it hateful for me to believe someone is living a life of sin? I don't treat homosexuals any differently whatsoever. I socialize with plenty of homosexuals in a completely comfortable manner. I treat them the same as any person.
Oh, you have some gay friends, well good for you - you should feel free to preach about the sinfulness of homosexuality all day long since you can't possibly be homophobic if you know any gay people. Just like you can't be racist if you know any black people, right?

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People constantly accuse me of being hateful for not being accepting. Since when did being accepting mean agreeing on every little thing? Never. I don't have to agree with the way people live their lives, and it's not unaccepting if I don't agree. It's unaccepting if I treat them badly because of it. I don't treat homosexuals any differently at all. They're people.
Every little thing? Yeah, sexuality is definitely just a little thing, not an integral part of who someone is. So out of curiousity, what do you do when your gay friends talk about their boyfriends or girlfriends? What do you do if they make any reference to their sexuality? Do you ignore it? Ask them not to talk about it? Tell them they're living in sin?
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:17 PM   #129
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Is that a theological statement, or a cultural one?
I believe it is as germain as the quote I responded to.

I have not given it thought,
except to say when I fall down and skin my knee, God is not punishing me.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:20 PM   #130
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
I've stated it in other threads and point to a series of Scripture; all of which point to the same conclusion.

And your condemnation comes across as a summary dismissal ("nothing but").
I assume your conclusion was the same as all the other homophobes here then - homosexuality is sinful, the Bible says so.

And yeah, call it a summary dismissal. I don't have a lot of time for people who like to condemn people for their sexuality.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:21 PM   #131
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Oh, you have some gay friends, well good for you - you should feel free to preach about the sinfulness of homosexuality all day long since you can't possibly be homophobic if you know any gay people. Just like you can't be racist if you know any black people, right?
Honestly, this is the worst point I've seen all week. We don't preach to the homosexuals we know of and tell them how we feel it's a sin. We ignore the differences, because otherwise, it's not friendly. It's like the pope meeting the Dali Llama. They would talk about their similarities, rather than their theological differences. Just because we believe something is a sin doesn't mean that we're the bigots you make us out to be.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:21 PM   #132
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Oh, you have some gay friends, well good for you - you should feel free to preach about the sinfulness of homosexuality all day long since you can't possibly be homophobic if you know any gay people. Just like you can't be racist if you know any black people, right?
Christians are called to build each other up in the faith, which includes warning each other of sins. There is no focus on any one sin, as they are not ranked. And since we are all sinners, we must be open to both correction and admonition in addition to looking out for others.

The analogy to racism is inapproprite and offensive.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:27 PM   #133
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However, I do believe that instead of stating the profound, unproven "born gay" propaganda, give someone hope that they can find relief through medicines, counseling, and faith. How can you believe in miracles if you believe that people cannot overcome obstacles?
I don't even know what propaganda you're talking about, but I can tell you from my own experiences that the idea that you chose your sexuality is bullshit. You do not make a conscious choice "I will only like men/I will only like women."

And I don't need your "hope" your "relief" your "medicines, counselling and faith." I don't need a "miracle." What I do need is for people to stop spewing the same homophobic nonsense that I've heard a thousand times over. What I do need is to not hear one more story of a fifteen year old kid getting bullied for being gay, one more story of a person disowned by their family because they don't like their sexuality, one more story of a person committing suicide because they can't cope with any more prejudice and bigotry.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:31 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Christians are called to build each other up in the faith, which includes warning each other of sins. There is no focus on any one sin, as they are not ranked. And since we are all sinners, we must be open to both correction and admonition in addition to looking out for others.

The analogy to racism is inapproprite and offensive.
So do Christians spend as much time condemning lying as they do condemning homosexuality? How about condemning adultery? Divorce? How about stealing, or swearing or drinking alcohol or any one of the thousand and one other things I've heard people call sins?

And why is the analogy to racism offensive? Racism and homophobia are both forms of prejudice, are both offensive, both based on ignorance, and both extremely harmful to the people they are directed against.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:31 PM   #135
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We don't tell the Negroes we know of and tell them how we feel they are inferior. We ignore the differences, because otherwise, it's not friendly. It's like the pope meeting the Dali Llama. They would talk about their similarities, rather than their theological differences. Just because we believe there is a difference doesn't mean that we're the bigots you make us out to be.
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