Conservative Christians put warning label on Spongebob video...

[deep]

Also, it is a fact that homosexuals are statistically more likely to have HIV, and that's a fact

This statement is revealing.

Why is it part of your thought process?


Members of your congregation or family are statistically more likely to be obese and die of heart disease than Hindus, just a fact.

 

[shart1780]

Sorry the HIV part was meant for another thread

 

[nbcrusader]

Some have already done this figuratively,

converting it to "trash" by using it to defend / promote bigotry.

This makes sense if we look to you as the final word on right and wrong.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Macfistowannabe; do you 'really' think that God 'designed' marriage solely for the purposes of pro-creation? That reads to me something more animal than human. After alll, animals don't need to be married in order to procreate - they do it anyway. I'm sure you'll agree that its more than just pro-creation when it comes to humans, and the 'typical liberal approach' which you seem to have cited must surely consider that, since it offers another approach from the usual specimens of pro-creation that we all are, if you read it your way.

Not "solely" but I believe that we have reproductive organs, and the purpose of those, is to reproduce. We aren't exactly animals, I would hope that our society would promote a higher standard than saying "well if animals do it, I guess it's okay" on a lot of issues.

Also, don't you find it remotely insulting for couples who decide not to have children, or, even worse, for couples who 'can't' have children?

There must be more to a human relationship than the ability to inseminate someone.

Ant.

P.S - Macfistowannabe, you were doing a lot better before that comment.

Those who choose not to have children, for whatever reason, as long as they would give unwanted children away for adoption and such if they became pregnant, I can understand that. Couples who can't have children, I would think, would adopt children even if they aren't the natural parents.

There IS more than inseminating people, it's showing them love, compassion, moral principles, and obedience. However, I do believe that instead of stating the profound, unproven "born gay" propaganda, give someone hope that they can find relief through medicines, counseling, and faith. How can you believe in miracles if you believe that people cannot overcome obstacles?

In general, I think of explaining my doctorine on God's institution for heterosexual marriage to those who accept the secularized liberal doctorine as trying to explain what they make to be an optical illusion. They have their views, and I have mine. They are hypocritical as well, they do not practice the "tolerance" they preach of, and rather, label conservatives as "bigots", "homophobes", and "hateful". The activists have me convinced that they are every bit as hypocritical as Dobson.

 

[deep]

This makes sense if we look to you as the final word on right and wrong.

Well, one thing you should know about me,

I won't say, "My dad can beat up your dad."

 

[nbcrusader]

Members of your congregation or family are statistically more likely to be obese and die of heart disease than Hindus, just a fact.

Is that a theological statement, or a cultural one?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Is that a theological statement, or a cultural one?

Ahh, separation of church and state.

GOOD QUESTION, THOUGH!

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

How is it hateful for me to believe someone is living a life of sin? I don't treat homosexuals any differently whatsoever. I socialize with plenty of homosexuals in a completely comfortable manner. I treat them the same as any person.

Oh, you have some gay friends, well good for you - you should feel free to preach about the sinfulness of homosexuality all day long since you can't possibly be homophobic if you know any gay people. Just like you can't be racist if you know any black people, right?

People constantly accuse me of being hateful for not being accepting. Since when did being accepting mean agreeing on every little thing? Never. I don't have to agree with the way people live their lives, and it's not unaccepting if I don't agree. It's unaccepting if I treat them badly because of it. I don't treat homosexuals any differently at all. They're people.

Every little thing? Yeah, sexuality is definitely just a little thing, not an integral part of who someone is. So out of curiousity, what do you do when your gay friends talk about their boyfriends or girlfriends? What do you do if they make any reference to their sexuality? Do you ignore it? Ask them not to talk about it? Tell them they're living in sin?

 

[deep]

Is that a theological statement, or a cultural one?

I believe it is as germain as the quote I responded to.

I have not given it thought,
except to say when I fall down and skin my knee, God is not punishing me.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I've stated it in other threads and point to a series of Scripture; all of which point to the same conclusion.

And your condemnation comes across as a summary dismissal ("nothing but").

I assume your conclusion was the same as all the other homophobes here then - homosexuality is sinful, the Bible says so.

And yeah, call it a summary dismissal. I don't have a lot of time for people who like to condemn people for their sexuality.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Oh, you have some gay friends, well good for you - you should feel free to preach about the sinfulness of homosexuality all day long since you can't possibly be homophobic if you know any gay people. Just like you can't be racist if you know any black people, right?

Honestly, this is the worst point I've seen all week. We don't preach to the homosexuals we know of and tell them how we feel it's a sin. We ignore the differences, because otherwise, it's not friendly. It's like the pope meeting the Dali Llama. They would talk about their similarities, rather than their theological differences. Just because we believe something is a sin doesn't mean that we're the bigots you make us out to be.

 

[nbcrusader]

Oh, you have some gay friends, well good for you - you should feel free to preach about the sinfulness of homosexuality all day long since you can't possibly be homophobic if you know any gay people. Just like you can't be racist if you know any black people, right?

Christians are called to build each other up in the faith, which includes warning each other of sins. There is no focus on any one sin, as they are not ranked. And since we are all sinners, we must be open to both correction and admonition in addition to looking out for others.

The analogy to racism is inapproprite and offensive.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

However, I do believe that instead of stating the profound, unproven "born gay" propaganda, give someone hope that they can find relief through medicines, counseling, and faith. How can you believe in miracles if you believe that people cannot overcome obstacles?

I don't even know what propaganda you're talking about, but I can tell you from my own experiences that the idea that you chose your sexuality is bullshit. You do not make a conscious choice "I will only like men/I will only like women."

And I don't need your "hope" your "relief" your "medicines, counselling and faith." I don't need a "miracle." What I do need is for people to stop spewing the same homophobic nonsense that I've heard a thousand times over. What I do need is to not hear one more story of a fifteen year old kid getting bullied for being gay, one more story of a person disowned by their family because they don't like their sexuality, one more story of a person committing suicide because they can't cope with any more prejudice and bigotry.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Christians are called to build each other up in the faith, which includes warning each other of sins. There is no focus on any one sin, as they are not ranked. And since we are all sinners, we must be open to both correction and admonition in addition to looking out for others.

The analogy to racism is inapproprite and offensive.

So do Christians spend as much time condemning lying as they do condemning homosexuality? How about condemning adultery? Divorce? How about stealing, or swearing or drinking alcohol or any one of the thousand and one other things I've heard people call sins?

And why is the analogy to racism offensive? Racism and homophobia are both forms of prejudice, are both offensive, both based on ignorance, and both extremely harmful to the people they are directed against.

 

[deep]

We don't tell the Negroes we know of and tell them how we feel they are inferior. We ignore the differences, because otherwise, it's not friendly. It's like the pope meeting the Dali Llama. They would talk about their similarities, rather than their theological differences. Just because we believe there is a difference doesn't mean that we're the bigots you make us out to be.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I don't even know what propaganda you're talking about, but I can tell you from my own experiences that the idea that you chose your sexuality is bullshit. You do not make a conscious choice "I will only like men/I will only like women."

Is it wrong to believe perhaps that there is a difference between someone experiencing homosexual feelings, and someone making a lifelong decision to go with those feelings, buy into the "born gay" line, compare conservatives to racists, and force your beliefs on them? It's like me trying to Christianize a Muslim. They have their beliefs, I have mine, true tolerance is accepting differences without calling people haters, bigots, and homophobes.

 

[Seeking Adam]

We don't tell the Negroes we know of and tell them how we feel they are inferior. We ignore the differences, because otherwise, it's not friendly. It's like the pope meeting the Dali Llama. They would talk about their similarities, rather than their theological differences. Just because we believe there is a difference doesn't mean that we're the bigots you make us out to be.

There IS more than inseminating people, it's showing them love, compassion, moral principles, and obedience. However, I do believe that instead of stating the profound, unproven "born straight" propaganda, give someone hope that they can find relief through medicines, counseling, and faith. How can you believe in miracles if you believe that people cannot overcome obstacles?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Yes, thanks for being real original.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Is it wrong to believe perhaps that there is a difference between someone experiencing homosexual feelings, and someone making a lifelong decision to go with those feelings, buy into the "born gay" line, compare conservatives to racists, and force your beliefs on them? It's like me trying to Christianize a Muslim. They have their beliefs, I have mine, true tolerance is accepting differences without calling people haters, bigots, and homophobes.

In order of appearance:

1) So someone "experiencing homosexual feelings" as you so eloquently put it, they should just try to ignore this should they? Perhaps it's just a silly phase they're doing through and they'll grow out of it. But when they don't grow out of it, you'd expect them to do what exactly? Stay single for their whole life because it's sinful to act on their feelings? Pretend to be straight, go out with someone of the opposite sex, maybe get married, keep living a lie for the rest of their life?

How loving of you.

2) I compared homophobes to racists, though if what you mean is that there are plenty of homophobic conservatives I won't complain.

3) True tolerance is accepting differences...like accepting people's right to be racist? Like accepting people's right to think women are inferior to men? No thanks. I don't have to tolerate people's bigotry and I have no intention of doing so.

 

[Do Miss America]

I don't even know what propaganda you're talking about, but I can tell you from my own experiences that the idea that you chose your sexuality is bullshit. You do not make a conscious choice "I will only like men/I will only like women."

And I don't need your "hope" your "relief" your "medicines, counselling and faith." I don't need a "miracle." What I do need is for people to stop spewing the same homophobic nonsense that I've heard a thousand times over. What I do need is to not hear one more story of a fifteen year old kid getting bullied for being gay, one more story of a person disowned by their family because they don't like their sexuality, one more story of a person committing suicide because they can't cope with any more prejudice and bigotry.

Thank you. That post just infurated me and I knew if I had responded I probably would have been banned. You responded very well. Thanks.

 

[Irvine511]

There IS more than inseminating people, it's showing them love, compassion, moral principles, and obedience. However, I do believe that instead of stating the profound, unproven "born straight" propaganda, give someone hope that they can find relief through medicines, counseling, and faith. How can you believe in miracles if you believe that people cannot overcome obstacles?

i don't believe in miracles, but i do think people can overcome obstacles.

people get hung up on the born gay/straight thing. while the general consensus is that genetics play a very strong role in determining sexuality, it's pretty much besides the point. one's sexual orientation is 100% INVOLUNTARY, so it really doesn't matter if one were born gay or not. there's no choice involved, no conscious rejection of anything. it occurs, as naturally as any heterosexual's orientation occurs over the course of many years.

what the church should do is help its members accept who they are, love them no matter what, and provide them the resources they need to live life honestly, to embrace a naturally occurring difference, instead of promoting some fear-based "ex-gay" ministry industry which have been widely, widely debunked.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

True tolerance is accepting differences...like accepting people's right to be racist? Like accepting people's right to think women are inferior to men? No thanks. I don't have to tolerate people's bigotry and I have no intention of doing so.

Argh, FizzingW, you'll never quit with the whole racist generalization, will you? If you can't be real about having a rational discussion, there's no point in even trying. Again, I say true tolerance is accepting differences without calling people haters, bigots, and homophobes. You don't have to make outrageous remarks about century old examples to make a point. Perhaps if you want to proselytize people, perhaps a more caring and less pugnacious approach would help.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

what the church should do is help its members accept who they are, love them no matter what, and provide them the resources they need to live life honestly, to embrace a naturally occurring difference, instead of promoting some fear-based "ex-gay" ministry industry which have been widely, widely debunked.

You have your free will, but how is that fear-based?

 

[Do Miss America]

I say true tolerance is accepting differences without calling people haters, bigots, and homophobes.

Or telling them they aren't normal. Look in a mirror lately?

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Argh, FizzingW, you'll never quit with the whole racist generalization, will you? If you can't be real about having a rational discussion, there's no point in even trying. Again, I say true tolerance is accepting differences without calling people haters, bigots, and homophobes. You don't have to make outrageous remarks about century old examples to make a point. Perhaps if you want to proselytize people, perhaps a more caring and less pugnacious approach would help.

What's irrational about comparing different forms of prejudice - such as racism and homophobia. As I explained before, both are based on ignorance, both are offensive and both are extremely harmful to the people being discriminated against.

So if true tolerance is accepting people's right to be homophobic, isn't it also accepting people's right to be racist?

And out of interest, what are these century old examples I'm supposed to have referred to?

Exactly how caring have you been throughout this discussion? Caring enough to condemn people for their sexuality? Caring enough to tell people they're living a life of sin? Caring enough to claim that gay people can "find relief" through some bizarre concoction of medicines (hey, perhaps if i take enough drugs next weekend i'll wake up straight, what d'ya think about that kids?) counselling ('yes, well, if you'll just find yourself a nice boyfriend everything will be all better') and faith (from the same church which apparently thinks i'm living in sin? what a laugh.).

My idea of caring is a bit different. It's being there when one of my friends phones me in the middle of the night upset because someone shouted homophobic abuse at her. It's talking to the fifteen year old kid getting bullied at school and trying to offer some sort of reassurance that there's something wrong with the bullies, not with them. I think I'd rather be on the receiving end of that sort of caring, rather than your strange version.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Or telling them they aren't normal. Look in a mirror lately?

My point was that the activists aren't walking the walk either. They are every bit as hypocritical as Dobson is. And really, I don't tell people they aren't normal.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

What's irrational about comparing different forms of prejudice - such as racism and homophobia. As I explained before, both are based on ignorance, both are offensive and both are extremely harmful to the people being discriminated against.

You honestly think I want to listen to people who make this comparison on me? No, I'm going to think they're full of crap.

Exactly how caring have you been throughout this discussion? Caring enough to condemn people for their sexuality? Caring enough to tell people they're living a life of sin? Caring enough to claim that gay people can "find relief" through some bizarre concoction of medicines (hey, perhaps if i take enough drugs next weekend i'll wake up straight, what d'ya think about that kids?) counselling ('yes, well, if you'll just find yourself a nice boyfriend everything will be all better') and faith (from the same church which apparently thinks i'm living in sin? what a laugh.).

Let me help you out with your little cause, for example...

"This is James. He's a painter, and a very good one. He may not have everything in common with you, and that's okay. We just hope that you respect his differences, and he will do the same for you."

My idea of caring is a bit different. It's being there when one of my friends phones me in the middle of the night upset because someone shouted homophobic abuse at her. It's talking to the fifteen year old kid getting bullied at school and trying to offer some sort of reassurance that there's something wrong with the bullies, not with them. I think I'd rather be on the receiving end of that sort of caring, rather than your strange version.

This is a better way of saying it, other than referring to me as "strange", it works out much better. Trust me, I'm sorry to hear of it. Really I do think it's awful that people can be so rude. I don't take conservative stances on issues because I am one of those people. I take them because I believe in who and what I'm voting for. If you can take the time to tell me apart from them, I would appreciate it.

 

[Dreadsox]

Is this an effort to understand understand Christian belief, or is it a summary dismissal of Christian belief for what you believe is a summary dismissal of homosexuals?

NB, you know I have tremendous respect for you but I disagree.

It may be your denominations Christian beliefs, but to summarize Christian beliefs as being united on this issue is wrong.

I have spent the last six weeks organizing the ceremony that made my Priest in Charge our permanent rector. She is 100% the best minister I have ever had. She is a lesbian. Our Bishop, who is leading the diocese is Gay and is pushing hard for us to get off of our asses and do more for Africa.

I am proud to belong to a Church that is inclusive. I am proud that my church is spending its time working towards something more important than SpongeBob.

I am proud of my Church and I believe that it is more in line with true Christian belief.

 

[Dreadsox]

Can't we all agree that as Christians there are more important things in the world than if Sponge Bob is stright gay or whatever?

 

[nbcrusader]

So do Christians spend as much time condemning lying as they do condemning homosexuality? How about condemning adultery? Divorce? How about stealing, or swearing or drinking alcohol or any one of the thousand and one other things I've heard people call sins?

On a person to person basis, yes. It never makes the news because it does not draw the headlines like homosexuality.

The bottom line is: we all are sinner. The question is: what do we do about it.

And why is the analogy to racism offensive? Racism and homophobia are both forms of prejudice, are both offensive, both based on ignorance, and both extremely harmful to the people they are directed against.

You equate Christianity with homophobia with racism. At least Christianity that take the Bible as God's inerrant Word and is willing to accept all of the Bible.

Must Christians reject certain teachings of Scripture to be acceptable to you?

Your own labeling of Christians could fall into your own generalization (i.e., is equal to racism). I'm sure that is not what you intended.