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Old 01-24-2005, 12:23 AM   #211
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"I don't care if a Church recognizes any marriages, but I do care that there is such blatent discrimination regarding marriage in secular society. That's what really pisses me off."

What pisses me off, Indra, is that it is far from a secular society. At least, many post-ers in this forum seem to think so; they say its a secular society, and yet, their most often used argument against gay marriage is the Bible?

Rather contradicting, I believe.

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Old 01-24-2005, 02:00 AM   #212
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Not only what we believe but how we believe it. You summarily dismiss "love the sinner, hate the sin". This is a core application for Christians.
That's got nothing to do with your original point - you claimed I was dismissing all Christian belief when in fact I was only taking issue with your interpretation of Christianity which may or may not be representative of all Christians.
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:11 AM   #213
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Why do we holh to such a primative concept that marriage is about having children?

I know quite a few children born out of wedlock. I know quite a dew children in single parent homes. You do not need to mbe married to have children.

It is almost comical to me to hear that marriage is about procreation.
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:29 AM   #214
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


That's got nothing to do with your original point - you claimed I was dismissing all Christian belief when in fact I was only taking issue with your interpretation of Christianity which may or may not be representative of all Christians.
The acknowledgement of sin and the Christian's response to it go hand in hand. My original point dealt with both with your disagreement of Biblical interpretation and outright dismissal of the appropriate Christian response (hate sin/love sinner).
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:44 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


The acknowledgement of sin and the Christian's response to it go hand in hand. My original point dealt with both with your disagreement of Biblical interpretation and outright dismissal of the appropriate Christian response (hate sin/love sinner).
How can anyone object to "hate sin/love sinner" ? We are all sinners, Christian or not.
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:54 AM   #216
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The concept of sin is moot if you are not religious.

Moral behavior is not the same as sin.
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:56 AM   #217
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We are all sinners, Christian or not.
As you may soon discover, there is plenty of disagreement on this point as well......


But you sum it up well Cardosino. It is not a matter of what is or is not sin. It is a matter of how you respond.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:37 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The acknowledgement of sin and the Christian's response to it go hand in hand. My original point dealt with both with your disagreement of Biblical interpretation and outright dismissal of the appropriate Christian response (hate sin/love sinner).
And as I pointed out - neither are universally accepted Christian beliefs. Not all Christians believe homosexuality is sinful, not all Christians believe in this 'hate the sin, love the sinner' argument. You can't claim I'm dismissing all Christian beliefs when in fact I'm only disagreeing with one particular view which isn't even universally accepted.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:39 AM   #219
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Originally posted by cardosino
How can anyone object to "hate sin/love sinner" ? We are all sinners, Christian or not.
Simple really. If you hate something which is a vital part of any person - ie their sexuality and all that goes with it such as relationships, love, marriage and much more - you cannot possibly claim you love that person. You can't claim to love someone when all the time you think that something which is an integral part of them and which they have no control over is wrong and to be hated.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:46 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
not all Christians believe in this 'hate the sin, love the sinner' argument.
I have not seen any argument against this belief.

BTW, are you making these statements from your knowledge of Christian belief?
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:59 AM   #221
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


And as I pointed out - neither are universally accepted Christian beliefs. Not all Christians believe homosexuality is sinful, not all Christians believe in this 'hate the sin, love the sinner' argument. You can't claim I'm dismissing all Christian beliefs when in fact I'm only disagreeing with one particular view which isn't even universally accepted.
Well, personally speaking I don't know of one Christian who doesn't believe that, but if you have sources which claim otherwise, I'd be very interested in reading them.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:01 AM   #222
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Simple really. If you hate something which is a vital part of any person - ie their sexuality and all that goes with it such as relationships, love, marriage and much more - you cannot possibly claim you love that person. You can't claim to love someone when all the time you think that something which is an integral part of them and which they have no control over is wrong and to be hated.
While it might be difficult, it's an integral part of the Christian belief system to do so. With all due respect I don't think you can say that it can't be done. Again, if you have empirical evidence to back it up, I'd love to read it.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:46 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I have not seen any argument against this belief.

BTW, are you making these statements from your knowledge of Christian belief?
Evidently the Christians who chose to persecute people because they don't like their sexuality don't give much regard to the "love" part of the statement. That's a fairly compelling argument against that belief.

And...what else would I be making my comments from? My knowledge of how to grow cabbage?
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:49 AM   #224
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So you are opposed to Gonzales, and the Bush Administration?
Yes I am opposed to Gonzales, I don't want anyone to think I'm not. I have stated my anti-torture views on FYM a dozen times before, and most likely, I will have to keep doing that. The Bush Administration... they've made some embarrassing mistakes, but don't fool yourself thinking I'm a liberal. I'm not the biggest Rumsfeld fan, or the biggest Gonzales fan. I wish we had more in the administration who had enough dignity to further scorn what went on.

(...I knew this would turn all political...)
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:52 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
Again, if you have empirical evidence to back it up, I'd love to read it.
What kind of empirical evidence can be provided when we're discussing something like love and hate?
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