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Old 01-23-2005, 03:03 PM   #151
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
You honestly think I want to listen to people who make this comparison on me? No, I'm going to think they're full of crap.
you still haven't explained why comparing racism and homophobia as different forms of prejudice is wrong. evidently you don't like the comparison but you've not yet explained why you feel it's not apropriate.

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Let me help you out with your little cause, for example...

"This is James. He's a painter, and a very good one. He may not have everything in common with you, and that's okay. We just hope that you respect his differences, and he will do the same for you."
well, okay. what cause was that again?

"Nice to meet you James. I'm a student, and a very good one. I may not have everything in common with you, and that's okay. I just hope you'll be able to avoid talking homophobic bollocks, and I'll do the same for you."

Err...yes.

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This is a better way of saying it, other than referring to me as "strange", it works out much better. Trust me, I'm sorry to hear of it. Really I do think it's awful that people can be so rude. I don't take conservative stances on issues because I am one of those people. I take them because I believe in who and what I'm voting for. If you can take the time to tell me apart from them, I would appreciate it.
Fine, you're sorry to hear about the amount of prejudice that LGBT people face every single day. But you're still going to go about perpetuating that prejudice by claiming homosexuality is sinful. I'm not saying someone who sits behind a computer screen typing homophobic comments is the same as the person who stands outside an LGBT clubnight and screams insults at people as they leave, but you all share the same belief - that there's something wrong or sinful about being gay and in that respect I make no distinction between the two.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:03 PM   #152
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Thanks for that post, NBC. And by the way Dread, I agree, Spongebob is a really stupid thing for Dobson to piss and moan about.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:03 PM   #153
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
And really, I don't tell people they aren't normal.
Excuse me?! I've seen you say over and over I wasn't born this way and that I need to seek the truth and conform to the norms of society. You've told me I'm not normal many times in here. So please keep that in mind when you talk about all encompassing tolerance.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:03 PM   #154
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

You equate Christianity with homophobia with racism. At least Christianity that take the Bible as God's inerrant Word and is willing to accept all of the Bible.

Must Christians reject certain teachings of Scripture to be acceptable to you?

Your own labeling of Christians could fall into your own generalization (i.e., is equal to racism). I'm sure that is not what you intended.
Apparently my church must be rejecting scripture, or at least the most recent translations of it.

While I find the rampant CONDEMNATION of Conservative Christians around here troubling.......

I find it equally offensive that my beliefs are equated with a REJECTION of the scriptures.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:07 PM   #155
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The reasons it is a RIGHT comparison is clear to me. Gays are an easy target to descriminate against. I would say that I cannot remember the last time I heard a church run an ad condemning stealing, adultery, debauchery ect......I wanted to cry hearing the advertisement on the radio this morning about Gay marriage though.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:08 PM   #156
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
On a person to person basis, yes. It never makes the news because it does not draw the headlines like homosexuality.

The bottom line is: we all are sinner. The question is: what do we do about it.
Well if it's simply on a person to person basis then on what basis do you make the judgement that Christians spend as much time condemning lying, stealing, etc as condemning homosexuality? I assume you can't claim to speak for every one of the millions of Christians in the world, so how are you able to make that statement?

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You equate Christianity with homophobia with racism. At least Christianity that take the Bible as God's inerrant Word and is willing to accept all of the Bible.
No, as dread has just pointed out, the idea that homosexuality is wrong is not something which is accepted by all Christians. I'm commenting on those Christians who choose to intepret the Bible in a way which indicates there's somethign wrong with homosexuality.

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Must Christians reject certain teachings of Scripture to be acceptable to you?
I don't accept prejudice. Simple as that. So yes, if Christians want to intepret the Bible as advocating bigotry, that is unacceptable to me.

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Your own labeling of Christians could fall into your own generalization (i.e., is equal to racism). I'm sure that is not what you intended.
How exactly? I'm not labelling all Christians, I'm commenting specifically on those who are of the opinion that homosexuality is wrong. If you think that's comparable to racism or homophobia then I think you've misunderstood the comparison I was making.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:12 PM   #157
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
you still haven't explained why comparing racism and homophobia as different forms of prejudice is wrong. evidently you don't like the comparison but you've not yet explained why you feel it's not apropriate.
You label conservatives as homophobes and racists, and expect us to listen to what you have to say. That's what bothers me, and that's why many people get tired of what you have to say. Think of it this way, It's not always the message, but the messengers. You aren't going to change people's beliefs, but if you present your case in the right fashion, people will listen to what you have to say, and take into account not to mistreat homosexuals.

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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Fine, you're sorry to hear about the amount of prejudice that LGBT people face every single day. But you're still going to go about perpetuating that prejudice by claiming homosexuality is sinful. I'm not saying someone who sits behind a computer screen typing homophobic comments is the same as the person who stands outside an LGBT clubnight and screams insults at people as they leave, but you all share the same belief - that there's something wrong or sinful about being gay and in that respect I make no distinction between the two.
Again, I don't like your vocabulary, and your intrusion on my belief in monogamous heterosexual relationships. If you could alter that into a better approach, that would be great. There is a difference between promoting the acceptance of homosexuals, and promoting something that opposes someone's personal beliefs. They are two different things, I have my views, you have yours, that is that. You can present examples without calling me a homophobe for being conservative. I would be glad to listen to what you have to say.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:14 PM   #158
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Apparently my church must be rejecting scripture, or at least the most recent translations of it.

While I find the rampant CONDEMNATION of Conservative Christians around here troubling.......

I find it equally offensive that my beliefs are equated with a REJECTION of the scriptures.
Thanks Dread, I will try to keep this in mind.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:17 PM   #159
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I find it equally offensive that my beliefs are equated with a REJECTION of the scriptures.
No, I narrowed it to interpreting all of Scripture as God's inerrant Word. I do not want to imply that someone is not a Christian because they do not believe a certain way on non-core matters.

I've seen many "carve outs" in interpretation: OT doesn't count anymore, only words spoken by Jesus count, the writter has a personal agenda, etc.

Methods of interpretation vary. I say it is all inerrant. Fizz expects me to say that certain passages don't say what they say.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:18 PM   #160
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
You label conservatives as homophobes and racists, and expect us to listen to what you have to say. That's what bothers me, and that's why many people get tired of what you have to say. Think of it this way, It's not always the message, but the messengers. You aren't going to change people's beliefs, but if you present your case in the right fashion, people will listen to what you have to say, and take into account not to mistreat homosexuals.
If you're tired of hearing people criticise homophobia, imagine how tired I am of seeing people day after day having their lives torn apart by homophobia. I don't really care if you're offended, upset, etc at what I have to say. It's what I believe and I'm not about to pretend otherwise to avoid offending people.

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Again, I don't like your vocabulary, and your intrusion on my belief in monogamous heterosexual relationships. If you could alter that into a better approach, that would be great.
And if you could stop saying gay people are living a life of sin, that's be great too.

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There is a difference between promoting the acceptance of homosexuals, and promoting something that opposes someone's personal beliefs. They are two different things, I have my views, you have yours, that is that. You can present examples without calling me a homophobe for being conservative. I would be glad to listen to what you have to say.
No, there isn't always a difference. Evidently it's your personal belief that homosexuality is wrong. This is incompatible with being accepting of people regardless of their sexuality.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:20 PM   #161
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Fizz expects me to say that certain passages don't say what they say.
Nah, Fizz just expects you to acknowledge that your particular brand of Christianity is homophobic. That's what started this whole debate - my comment regarding the ridiculous "hate the sin, love the sinner" line.

Actually, forget that - I expect nothing. You're free to espouse whatever views you wish, just as I'm free to find them abhorrent and tell you so.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:23 PM   #162
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
The reasons it is a RIGHT comparison is clear to me. Gays are an easy target to descriminate against. I would say that I cannot remember the last time I heard a church run an ad condemning stealing, adultery, debauchery ect......I wanted to cry hearing the advertisement on the radio this morning about Gay marriage though.
I think people have this odd idea that Christian churches are fixated on the homosexuality issue. Week after week, I hear sermons and teachings on just about everything else.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:23 PM   #163
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So you're not willing to give up your buzzwords, which could result in helping homosexuals better succeed in society? My God, I'm trying to HELP YOU OUT! Nobody wants to be compared to racists and homophobes, and NOBODY WILL LISTEN TO someone who makes that comparison. All I am saying is give up the vocabulary, it's very familiar to those who are comparing Bush to Hitler.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:24 PM   #164
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Nah, Fizz just expects you to acknowledge that your particular brand of Christianity is homophobic. That's what started this whole debate - my comment regarding the ridiculous "hate the sin, love the sinner" line.

Actually, forget that - I expect nothing. You're free to espouse whatever views you wish, just as I'm free to find them abhorrent and tell you so.
So, we circle back to a generalization about Christian belief. Remember, when you are pointing at someone and declaring "these people are hateful" you do so with your own hatred.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:24 PM   #165
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I think people have this odd idea that Christian churches are fixated on the homosexuality issue. Week after week, I hear sermons and teachings on just about everything else.
I said ADS...not sermons. ADS on the radio sponsored by Churches.
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