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Old 08-25-2005, 01:18 PM   #61
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Originally posted by nathan1977
so perhaps there are deeper, more Christianity-centered reasons for the resentment/anger/what have you.
Could you explain exactly what you mean by this sentence, please?

(Sorry, that sentence sounds really formal and demanding, which it isn't supposed to be -- I'm trying to ask in a friendly, curious way, but that's a kind of difficult emotion to convey over the internet, lol.)
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:23 AM   #62
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What is inside conservative Christianity that riles people?
Finally.

Blatant hypocrisy. That is what seems to be the biggest problem. See, people on the whole, want to be good and loving and kind and forgiving. We want to tolerate and accept. All of us, regardless of denomination and even a religious blanket to wrap around ourselves. Look at everyone here. This whole board is mostly filled with good people. It's human nature. But something changes when we add a conservative Christian slant to things. We see a hypocrisy which cannot co-exist with these, and so we wonder, how do these people end up feeling as such, when they are not cruel or heartless people? These very societal issues that this forum specifically argues about, is precisely what makes people stop and ask "what the hell is this about?"

I ask you, how can a loving and forgiving person wish for someone to be dead because of a crime they commit? Add to that, someone who's life is so centred around a book and denomination which does nothing BUT promote love, forgiveness, acceptance, and non-judgement actively wish for criminal minded individuals to be lawfully murdered by the state?

I ask you, how can a loving and forgiving person wish for rights to be denied continuously to our homosexual sector of the community? Add to that, someone who's life is so centred around a book and denomination which does nothing BUT promote love, forgiveness, acceptance, and non-judgement actively wish for the gay and lesbians of our community to be lawfully denied equality?
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Old 08-26-2005, 08:43 PM   #63
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Re: Conservative Christian

Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
As a Christian, I've very often been misunderstood and inaccurately labelled a "conservative" Christian when really, I consider myself a more traditional Christian. I'm just curious to here what comes to mind when you guys hear "conservative Christian". What makes a Christian conservative vs. traditional, contemporary, liberal, etc? What's the difference between being just plain conservative or being a conservative Christian? What's your definition, from whatever perspective you're at, of a "conservative" Christian?
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic:

In the past, I've considered myself a "conservative Christian" and one who prefers a "traditional" style of worship, all at the same time considering myself "evangelical" in my desire to share the Gospel of Jesus with others and having some "fundamental" interpretations of Scripture.

However, in the past few years, I've come to identify myself as an orthodox (small "o") Christian. This is not to be confused with the proper "Orthodox Church" but moreso with my orthodox view of Scripture and the role of the Church.

Politically, I still consider myself conservative, for the most part. Theologically, I am a paracticing and confessing Christian. However, if "Conservative Christian" is indicative of membership in an interest group for people like Pat Robertson and, here in Alabama, the legendary Judge Roy Moore, then I am not a "Conservative Christian" as I do not agree with their theological/political solutions which I see as theocratic (something which the New Testament does not call for - theocracy).

Regarding the inerrancy/infallibility issue, this week's "Ask The Clergy" post on a local (orthodox) Episcopal cathedral's website addresses a similar if not downright identical question, differentiating between literalism and inerrancy. You may or may not agree entirely but I found it to be rahter straightforward and especially pleased at the position that there is a time for some literal interpretation (to deny the resurrection would invalidate the importance of the Gospel, etc.). I hope you enjoy...

Quote:
Current question/topic for discussion:
Is there a way that one can hold the Bible to be inerrant and not hold to the literal interpretation of the Creation stories, Jonah and the Whale, Noah's Ark, etc.?


Inerrancy and literalism are different matters. The former refers to being without mistakes. A faithful interpretation of the Scriptures recognizes that the Bible is not a mere text of science or history but God’s self-revelation. Insofar as the Scriptures reveal God to us, they are without error. Error arises when we interact with the Bible, as when we translate or copy it or pull material from its context to use according to our heart’s desires.

Literalism, declaring that all of the text of the Scriptures describes physical events in an expository fashion unless the text states otherwise, ignores the way in which God has revealed himself to us. Most of the Scriptures are written in narrative form. The purpose of much of this narrative is not to tell stories about individuals or to recount events in their lives but to tell us about God and our relationship with God. A good test of how literally a description of events should be taken is to ask oneself if a nonliteral interpretation would reduce the level of revelation about God which the narrative gives to us.

An example is the resurrection of Jesus. To deny the physical reality of the bodily resurrection is to invalidate the gospel as the good news. In the words of 1 Corinthians 15:14, “If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.”

At other times, the point of the narrative does not lie in the historicity of the events it recounts but in what the story illustrates about the Creator and creation. For instance, the first 11 chapters of Genesis describe the spiral of the human race ever deeper into sinfulness. Our understanding of this universal self-imposed estrangement from God is illustrated vividly by the story of Noah’s Ark but is not dependent on the historical accuracy of a world-wide flood. Likewise, an understanding of the absolute sovereignty of God’s will can be gained from reading about Jonah without also interpreting the Jonah narrative with absolute literalism.

In the end, we read the Scriptures not to explain celestial mechanics or climatology or the digestive activities of fish. We read them to understand what is wrong with our lives and why and to learn what has been done about it. We read them because they bring us the truth concerning universal sinfulness and of God’s loving gift of justification and redemption in Christ Jesus, justification which comes not by our doings but by faith (Romans 3:23-28).
~U2Alabama
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Old 08-27-2005, 09:22 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Finally.

Blatant hypocrisy. That is what seems to be the biggest problem. See, people on the whole, want to be good and loving and kind and forgiving. We want to tolerate and accept. All of us, regardless of denomination and even a religious blanket to wrap around ourselves. Look at everyone here. This whole board is mostly filled with good people. It's human nature. But something changes when we add a conservative Christian slant to things. We see a hypocrisy which cannot co-exist with these, and so we wonder, how do these people end up feeling as such, when they are not cruel or heartless people? These very societal issues that this forum specifically argues about, is precisely what makes people stop and ask "what the hell is this about?"

I ask you, how can a loving and forgiving person wish for someone to be dead because of a crime they commit? Add to that, someone who's life is so centred around a book and denomination which does nothing BUT promote love, forgiveness, acceptance, and non-judgement actively wish for criminal minded individuals to be lawfully murdered by the state?

I ask you, how can a loving and forgiving person wish for rights to be denied continuously to our homosexual sector of the community? Add to that, someone who's life is so centred around a book and denomination which does nothing BUT promote love, forgiveness, acceptance, and non-judgement actively wish for the gay and lesbians of our community to be lawfully denied equality?
An interesting post. Thanks for your thoughts and feelings.

It seems rather disingenuous though to single out conservative Christians for being hypocrites. Are Christians the only hypocrites in the world? Are Christians the biggest? Hypocrisy seems to be everywhere. If people want to be good people, which I believe they do, then the vast majority of the world's population -- who do not claim Christianity -- are hypocrites. But again, singling out Christianity for its hypocrisy doesn't make Christianity unique amidst a world full of people who say one thing and do another.

It seems to me that conservatism, rather than Christianity, is what people are really frustrated by in this thread. The questions I've asked, have been answered so far in political terms, not religious ones -- gay rights, gender equality issues, death penalty, hypocrisy, etc. No one seems to be addressing the Christian side of the thread, so it seems weird for this thread to be about "Conservative Christianity," when it seems that people are primarily expressing views on conservatism and politics.

Perhaps a better title for the thread would be Conservative Christians, since that seems to be what we're talking about here -- the interpretation of Christianity by conservative, politically-active groups. It would, after all, be a shame to define a religion by its interpretation by a particular group of people. (Again, no one on this board seems to tar and feather Islam because of the interpretations of the Quran by terrorists.)
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Old 08-27-2005, 11:37 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


An interesting post. Thanks for your thoughts and feelings.

It seems rather disingenuous though to single out conservative Christians for being hypocrites. Are Christians the only hypocrites in the world? Are Christians the biggest? Hypocrisy seems to be everywhere. If people want to be good people, which I believe they do, then the vast majority of the world's population -- who do not claim Christianity -- are hypocrites. But again, singling out Christianity for its hypocrisy doesn't make Christianity unique amidst a world full of people who say one thing and do another.

It seems to me that conservatism, rather than Christianity, is what people are really frustrated by in this thread. The questions I've asked, have been answered so far in political terms, not religious ones -- gay rights, gender equality issues, death penalty, hypocrisy, etc. No one seems to be addressing the Christian side of the thread, so it seems weird for this thread to be about "Conservative Christianity," when it seems that people are primarily expressing views on conservatism and politics.

Perhaps a better title for the thread would be Conservative Christians, since that seems to be what we're talking about here -- the interpretation of Christianity by conservative, politically-active groups. It would, after all, be a shame to define a religion by its interpretation by a particular group of people. (Again, no one on this board seems to tar and feather Islam because of the interpretations of the Quran by terrorists.)
I completely disagree. It's Conservative Christianity that came out and boldly made such claims that this is about faith not politics. That their involvement in politics is faith driven.

This is not about conservatism. True conservatisim is about small government. Not a government that involves itself in what's going on in your bedroom, who you marry, prayer in school, etc...

And once again this thread isn't about Islam, we've talked about Islam in many other threads. Most of us also don't live in countries where the Quran is being abused, but we do live in countries where the Bible and politics are being abused.

No one no where in this thread has defined Christianity by these people, in fact some in here would argue it would be the complete opposite.
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Old 08-27-2005, 12:29 PM   #66
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I'm not sure that it's necessarily a bad thing that some people accuse Christians of hypocricy, and hold them to a higher standard than non-believers. By declaring yourself a Christian, you automatically put yourself on a pedestal. You are making a statement about yourself, and about what you believe to be true, and how you hope to behave. When non-Christians complain about Christian hypocricy, I think that it more often than not spurs true believers into action, and motivates them to do better, to set a good example. I would argue that this is a good thing. However, i think many Christians respond to criticism by sitting around and moping, and doing the whole "poor little me, nobody understands me" routine. Christ himself pointed out that following him is not the easy path, and criticism from non-believers is just part of the package of Christianity.
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Old 08-27-2005, 03:06 PM   #67
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My biggest problem with Christianity is that some of the followers claim to be perfect little souls, when you know full well they aren't. There are some who make it seem like the rest of us are all heathens, and they're all holier-than-thou. They're human, too, I expect that they're just like other human beings and are imperfect (which is not necessarily a bad thing), so it irritates me when some of them act like they aren't imperfect. I know that's not true, and it makes me wonder why they're so intent on acting that way.

And yes, it does also bother me that some of them are also so quick to butt their noses into aspects of people's lives that they really don't need to worry themselves with in the first place.

Angela
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:21 PM   #68
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Interesting responses thus far. It seems that most could be construed as anything from impressions (judgments?) to stereotypes regarding Conservative Christianity.

What is hard to understand is the impression that Conservative Christians have cornered the market on being judgmental when this thread alone is filled with many judgmental statements.

I am sure we would all rather reach understanding of our respective world views, I hope we can skip the finger pointing and move towards understanding.

I think the spiritual/political distinction gets blurred and those of faith are tossed out with those of political action.
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Old 09-03-2005, 02:17 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I think the spiritual/political distinction gets blurred and those of faith are tossed out with those of political action.
I think that's a perfect (however unfortunate) summary.
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