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Old 08-24-2005, 05:37 PM   #31
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
One that believes in absolutes
Since Muslims and traditional Jews also share a belief in absolutes, this seems to be a bit general.

Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Secondly I think of people who condemn homosexuality, believe women should be subordinate to men, etc.
Ditto. So why pick on one particular religion? Better perhaps to come down on a vast majority of religious traditions than one branch of the tree.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:40 PM   #32
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Originally posted by nathan1977
Ditto. So why pick on one particular religion? Better perhaps to come down on a vast majority of religious traditions than one branch of the tree.
I find homophobia and sexism abhorrent and would condemn them whether they are espoused by a Muslim, a Jew, a Christian or an atheist. However, this was a thread specifically about conservative Christianity, which is probably why people are focusing on Christianity.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:41 PM   #33
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^

Makes sense.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:42 PM   #34
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I consider conservative Christians to be my inlaws. They homeschool their children (and each have about 6 kids), practice that the husband is head of the household, the wife is a homemaker, and their beliefs are based on the Bible. They also don't allow their children, or themselves, to watch TV. I had a really hard time with most of them at first, but they are genuinely nice people who are willing to help anyone out. I do feel judged a lot because I'm very different from them (I've been married for 4 years and don't have any kids. Horrors!)

Maybe that isn't a conservative Christian but that's what they consider themselves. I guess I'd call myself a moderate.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:44 PM   #35
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I'm surprised you don't believe that. I remember you saying before that you were a Calvinist, but maybe that isn't part of Calvinism, though I think it is. I'm a Calvinist as well and do believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, though it is hard at times, just like it is hard to be a Calvinist at times.
Calvin just rolled three times in his grave! Hehe, sorry, no, inerrancy of Scripture is definitely NOT part of Calvinism. Infallability, yes, but both are loaded words with VERY different theological outcomes. "Inerrant" means the Bible is the literal truth. "Infallible" means the Bible is truthful about which it's supposed to be. It's kind of confusing, but I can still be a good little Calvinist and believe that most of the entire Old Testament never happened, it's just stories whose purposes contain truth. Infallability of the Bible is more like when you learn about myths in history class. Myths are defined as stories whose events and characters aren't true, but the underlying theme of the story contains the truth.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
Since Muslims and traditional Jews also share a belief in absolutes, this seems to be a bit general.

Ditto. So why pick on one particular religion? Better perhaps to come down on a vast majority of religious traditions than one branch of the tree.
Agreed, and if anyone wants to start a thread bashing Islam, Judaism, etc, I for one will happily line up to do so, given that I am an agnostic! (provided that it's not of the 'all Muslims support terrorism type)

But I guess because most here are Christians of various persuasions, mainly relatively liberal ones, together with a few atheists/agnostics, it is probably not surprising that it is Conservative Christianity that gets it 'in the neck' the most.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:45 PM   #37
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Originally posted by nathan1977

Ditto. So why pick on one particular religion? Better perhaps to come down on a vast majority of religious traditions than one branch of the tree.
Because there are FACES that are associated with conservative christianity that make it easier to target them.

I have MANY MANY friends who are conservaqtive christians. I do not see eye to eye with them on things...but deep down inside at the end of the day, we believe in forgiveness...feeding the hungry...clothing the poor....helping the homeless....visiting the elderly in nursing homes.....and if we spent all day long focusing on the differences would that not lead us to a rather unproductive path?
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:46 PM   #38
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Calvin just rolled three times in his grave! Hehe, sorry, no, inerrancy of Scripture is definitely NOT part of Calvinism. Infallability, yes, but both are loaded words with VERY different theological outcomes. "Inerrant" means the Bible is the literal truth. "Infallible" means the Bible is truthful about which it's supposed to be. It's kind of confusing, but I can still be a good little Calvinist and believe that most of the entire Old Testament never happened, it's just stories whose purposes contain truth. Infallability of the Bible is more like when you learn about myths in history class. Myths are defined as stories whose events and characters aren't true, but the underlying theme of the story contains the truth.
I thought inerrancy and infallibity were the same thing. Shows what I know! I'll have to do some pondering on that because now I'm not sure what I think.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:48 PM   #39
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My apologies...I do not think that is your intent to be clear....it is the direction I fear it is headed.....
Ah, ok, sorry. My intent was to learn what others view as conservative Christianty. I often get labelled as such (not just here in FYM) and it confuses me, honestly, because I have more in common with totally seperate religions than I do with conservative Christianity. I'd like to understand where people are coming from and why these mistakes keep happening because I keep getting into situations where I get offended because someone gets me totally wrong or I offend someone else because I'm too defensive and the root of the issue is we're not on the same page as far as these words with loaded meanings.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:49 PM   #40
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Originally posted by anitram


Then you have the conservative Christians who are extremely politically active, who believe in a state sponsored theocracy or some degree thereof, whose religion and religious beliefs happen to permeate their entire social fabric and they would also seemingly like it to permeate the society as a whole.

The first group doesn't bother me in the least. The second group continues to want to infringe on what I perceive to be my rights as a citizen in a secular state and them, I could most certainly do without. So that's my honest answer.
I agree with nbcrusader -- the divergence of spiritual vs. political Christians is a good differentiation.

While I agree that there is a danger in backing up politics with religion (last I checked, just because someone deems America a "Christian nation" doesn't make it so), I think it's very hard if you're someone who takes her/his faith seriously, not to let it affect the decisions you make and the values you hold. And since so much of legislation is about choosing laws in line with your values, it's hard to leave your beliefs behind at the ballot box.

It seems to have the effect of saying there are places God should not be, and if you're of the mindset that God shouldn't be put in a box, then it's hard to say "HERE I will use my faith, HERE I won't."
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:49 PM   #41
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Originally posted by briarrose
I thought inerrancy and infallibity were the same thing. Shows what I know! I'll have to do some pondering on that because now I'm not sure what I think.
To some it doesn't matter, but to Calvinists it does b/c usually people who don't think the distinction matters err on the side of assuming infallibility is the same as inerrancy (not the other way around). I can explain it better privately if you'd like.
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:01 PM   #42
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I suppose i am a pretty traditional Catholic in that i got to church on Sunday, observe Holy Days and what not..i do not agree with everything in the church though, but the way i practice my beliefs is traditionalist, but the beliefs i hold are a bit liberal leaning, but not all.

I have issues though with people who say that you should not take your beliefs into politics and then try to implement them through law. If you hide your beliefs to get elected to a position of power and then try to force them into law then i believe that is wrong, but if you openly state your beliefs and are elected then i think its ok (no i do not believe its ok if an extremist is elected who then wants to kill these people for disagreeing with these beliefs etc).

I for instance, i believe abortion to be wrong (sorry i am not trying to turn this into a debate about abortion, it was the first thing that came to mind and it is a conservative belief i suppose i still hold to). If i was elected to a position where i could decide whether it is banned or not, i would hold a vote on it, if voted in favour it would be set in law, if against then it would not, but at least i would have held true to my values and beliefs by trying to change it. If you get voted for and do not follow what you believe, you are already a hypocrite, so how can you be trusted to keep the promises to your electorate if you can not hold true to yourself.

Liberals have beliefs which they wish to be imposed as such on to society as much as conservative Christians have beliefs they wish to impose as such.

Conservative Christians would be against contraception, i am not, but the liberal position of allowing contraception is a belief as much as the conservative christrian one, so a person who is voted in on their pro-contraception stance in a government is asking them to make that view heard in the hope of it being made law. Imposing beliefs un-democratically is wrong... i think that is what i am trying to say
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by LJT


Conservative Christians would be against contraception, i am not, but the liberal position of allowing contraception is a belief as much as the conservative christrian one, so a person who is voted in on their pro-contraception stance in a government is asking them to make that view heard in the hope of it being made law. Imposing beliefs un-democratically is wrong... i think that is what i am trying to say
Sorry but that doesn't make sense to me, first of all I contraception really is only a Catholic thing.

But let's pretend it's not. Allowing those to protect themselves is not imposing a belief, it's a precaution to protect the whole. Denying that is based purely on religious beliefs and not the belief of what's best for the mass populous. I see a huge difference.
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:45 PM   #44
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Is that all three, or any one of the three?
I would say at one time or another all three.

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Originally posted by nbcrusader

Also, does "takes every word of the Bible as a literal word spoken from God" include the consept of the Bible as infallible.
Yes. And I think the difference lies in the fact that many will view God as infallible but don't believe the humans who "recorded" this history to be the same.
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:52 PM   #45
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Sorry but that doesn't make sense to me, first of all I contraception really is only a Catholic thing.
Sorry it was just a mix-up..i am getting very sleepy at the moment

Quote:
But let's pretend it's not. Allowing those to protect themselves is not imposing a belief, it's a precaution to protect the whole. Denying that is based purely on religious beliefs and not the belief of what's best for the mass populous. I see a huge difference.
I think i just picked a bad example to use...as i am for contraception...and even if i wasn't it does not effect my individual morality as i could chose not to use it (and i know this then kinda goes against my anti-abortion stance, i just view that as a loss of life which we should all be concerned with, where contraception is just a prevention measure)

Umm at the moment i can not really think of anything else i could use in that scenario instead...too tired If anyone wants to suggest something i am open to takers
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