Congressman Foley resigns - Page 9 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-04-2006, 10:01 AM   #121
New Yorker
 
Scarletwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside it's Amerika
Posts: 2,746
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Glenn sums up the GOP quite nicely I think.
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/

Mark Foley and the unmasked Republican Party

Denny Hastert is smack in the middle of one of the tawdriest and ugliest sex scandals in American political history. As a result, he has been the target of aggressive criticism, even from a few members of his own party, and, by all accounts, is desperately battling to keep his job.

In need of moral absolution and support from a respected and admired figure who possesses moral authority among Hastert's morally upstanding Republican base, to whom does Hastert turn? A priest or respected reverend? An older wise political statesman with a reputation for integrity and dignity? No, there is only one person with sufficient moral credibility among the increasingly uncomfortable moralistic Republican base who can give Hastert the blessing he needs:

Rush Limbaugh. And so that is where Hastert went yesterday in order to obtain the Decree that He Did Nothing Wrong.
As much as I tried -- and, trust me, I really tried -- I couldn't expunge this picture from my mind yesterday because, in all its visceral hideousness, it really illustrates what I think is the principal reason why this Foley scandal is resonating so strongly. This is the real face of the ruling Republican party, and it has been unmasked -- violently -- by the exposure of Mark Foley and his allies who protected and harbored him.

If the term "moral degenerate" has any validity and can be fairly applied to anyone, there are few people who merit that term more than Rush Limbaugh. He is the living and breathing embodiment of moral degeneracy, with his countless overlapping sexual affairs, his series of shattered, dissolved marriages, his hedonistic and illegal drug abuse, his jaunts, with fistfulls of Viagra (but no wife), to an impoverished Latin American island renowned for its easy access to underage female prostitutes.

Yet that is who Hastert chose as the High Priest of the Values Voters to whom he made his pilgrimage and from whom he received his benediction. The difference between Rush Limbaugh and Mark Foley, to the extent there is one, is one of hedonistic tastes, not moral level. Rush Limbaugh isn't just tolerated within the party that stands for religious piety and moral strength. He is a leader of it, arguably the leader of its most righteous wing. Is it really all that surprising that a political movement that has chosen a moral degenerate like Rush Limbaugh as one of its most revered and morally respected leaders is not all that bothered by -- and therefore actively harbors -- the Mark Foleys of the world?

The individuals who never tire of making public displays of how concerned they are with our moral fabric -- the Kathryn Jean Lopezs of the world who find Bill Clinton's sex life such a cause for condemnation and who publicly crusade to have John Kerry shunned by good Catholics because of how immoral he is and interrupt such crusades only in order to coo with giddy love and profound respect for Rush Limbaugh -- are well aware that their party is filled to the rim with sleazy, corrupt hedonists with as bloated and piggish a sense of entitlement as can be imagined. But as long as they help keep the party in power, they are not just tolerated but embraced. That dynamic is a core operating principle of the Bush-led Republican Party, and it is why Mark Foley was able to rise within it despite its being an "open secret" in Washington GOP power circles -- a very open secret -- exactly what he was.
...
We have been barraged with laws, programs, sermons, demagoguery and all sorts of moral demonization from a political movement whose most powerful pundit is a multiple-times-divorced drug addict who flamboyantly cavorts around with a new girlfriend every few months in between Viagra-fueled jaunts to the Dominican Republic. It is a political movement whose legacy will be torture, waterboards, naked, sadomasochistic games in Iraqi dungeons (or, to Rush, "blowing off steam"), with all sorts of varied sleaze and corruption deeply engrained throughout its DNA -- all propped up by a facade of moralism and dependent upon the support of those who have been propagandized into believing that they voting for the Party of Values and Morals.

It is not a coincidence that the GOP was harboring someone like Mark Foley within its highest ranks while their most powerful political officials purposely looked the other way and even actively helped to conceal what he was up to, thereby enabling him to continue. After all, even now that this conduct has been exposed, their instinct -- all the way to the highest levels -- is to excuse and defend those leaders and offer up the most disgusting defenses -- all because preservation of their political power depends on it. This is not some bizarre aberration. This is how they operate and it is what they are. And the Mark Foley scandal is making it virutally impossible for anyone to convincingly deny it any longer.
__________________

__________________
Scarletwine is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 10:14 AM   #122
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
Glenn sums up the GOP quite nicely I think.
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/

If the term "moral degenerate" has any validity and can be fairly applied to anyone, there are few people who merit that term more than Rush Limbaugh. He is the living and breathing embodiment of moral degeneracy, with his countless overlapping sexual affairs, his series of shattered, dissolved marriages, his hedonistic and illegal drug abuse, his jaunts, with fistfulls of Viagra (but no wife), to an impoverished Latin American island renowned for its easy access to underage female prostitutes.
BS. Of all the moral degenerates in this world, he says that there are few who merit the term more than Rush Limbaugh? BS. Pure BS.
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 10:43 AM   #123
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,472
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


BS. Of all the moral degenerates in this world, he says that there are few who merit the term more than Rush Limbaugh? BS. Pure BS.


but there are few morally dengenerate hypocrites who get paid more than Rush Limbaugh.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 10-04-2006, 10:49 AM   #124
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,472
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Thanks for this thoughtful answer Irvine. I am pretty much on the same page with you.

Of course - the the next place this discussion would probably go is here: if morality is determined by parents, community, local laws, books, and an innate sense of right and wrong - then should a society do what it can to insure that all children are having these values instilled by these resources? Otherwise, we may have one community within the society that may feel random cannibalism is okay because their parents say so, their community says so, their local laws say so, and the books they read say so.


and we do have communities in our society that have a different sense of right and wrong -- take the Amish. and everyone's fine with that.

i think your cannibalism example is extreme, probably too extreme to be taken seriously.

it's near impossible to come up with a set of rules that everyone should live by. simply because something works for you doesn't mean that it will work for someone else. this is why law, and societies, are always shifting and changing and altering themselves. they are elastic by definition, they must change and adapt to their continually evolving circumstance (you seem comfortable tossing out Civil Rights due to our "new" enemy) and anyone looking for a timeless set of rules that are always correct for all people in all circumstance are going to be disappointed because it simply doesn't exist.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 10-04-2006, 11:09 AM   #125
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




but there are few morally dengenerate hypocrites who get paid more than Rush Limbaugh.
I doubt that, as well, but that's not what the writer of the article said.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 01:13 PM   #126
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Melon - you and homophobia is like McCarthy and communisim - you see it everywhere.

The "dimension" of discussing why people had a problem with this news story was simply to demonstrate how random our moral outrage can be.

Well because it's blaringly obvious in this thread. How many times have you been called out on making that dimension your focus?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-04-2006, 02:18 PM   #127
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


i think your cannibalism example is extreme, probably too extreme to be taken seriously.

Wikipedia - The Korowai tribe of southeastern Papua is one of the last surviving tribes in the world engaging in cannibalism

What if these folks immigrated and moved to a remote part of Wyoming? What moral rule set should apply?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 02:35 PM   #128
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon

B]Foley was not having a consensual affair. He was sending illegal sexual messages to people who are undeniably minors by any stretch of the imagination (e.g., 13 and 15 year olds), in addition to sending illegal sexually harrassing messages to a subordinate. Whether that "subordinate" was male, female, 17 years old, or 50 years old, it is still inappropriate, unethical, and illegal to engage in that kind of behavior in the position that Foley was in. As such, he deserves the wrath that he's getting.
[/SIZE]

Melon [/B]
I just want to make sure I am following your logic here - if Foley sent these lewd e-mails to 16 a year old consenting non-subordinate male, then you would have no problem with them? (assuming 16 is the age of consent in the state where this occurs)
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 02:41 PM   #129
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I just want to make sure I am following your logic here - if Foley sent these lewd e-mails to 16 a year old consenting non-subordinate male, then you would have no problem with them? (assuming 16 is the age of consent in the state where this occurs)
What else could you do? They would be two consenting adults in a consenting relationship.

Honestly what is your point?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-04-2006, 03:24 PM   #130
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,332
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Wikipedia - The Korowai tribe of southeastern Papua is one of the last surviving tribes in the world engaging in cannibalism

What if these folks immigrated and moved to a remote part of Wyoming? What moral rule set should apply?

WTF does cannibalism in Papua and Wyoming have to do with some Republican pervert?

Why is it that when the Right wants to put homosexuality in "context" they have to resort to ridiculous extremes?

WTF??
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 03:36 PM   #131
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


What else could you do? They would be two consenting adults in a consenting relationship.

Honestly what is your point?
Some people are pointing out 1) The messages between the two indicate some level of consensus 2) he was not Foley's subordinate (I am not exactly sure what a page does - but I guess this kid didn't answer to Foley).
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 03:47 PM   #132
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,332
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
2) he was not Foley's subordinate (I am not exactly sure what a page does - but I guess this kid didn't answer to Foley).
He was Foley's page, which makes it a subordinate relationship.

Why are you looking for excuses for this guy?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 04:07 PM   #133
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha


He was Foley's page, which makes it a subordinate relationship.

Why are you looking for excuses for this guy?

If you care to go back through this thread - you would see that I am definitely not making excuses for this guy. Foley's behavior is disgraceful on many levels. And so is the behavior of the Republican Party leadership regarding this issue.
I am simply pointing out the randomness in which several posters here label something as morally reprehensible.

Foley's conduct disturbs me very deeply. I have always looked at the Republican Party as sort of a “last hope” to save my country from a long slide into moral bankruptcy. I admit – I have allowed myself to be deceived.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-04-2006, 04:32 PM   #134
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,882
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I don't even know why this dimension was added to this discussion originally, except to be homophobic.
I think deep set the homophobic tone for this thread, with his opening two posts.

Of course, he did try to bring it back to the true issue when he pointed out that Speaker Hastert once coached a boys wrestling team, and what that might imply
__________________
Bluer White is online now  
Old 10-04-2006, 04:56 PM   #135
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,332
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
If you care to go back through this thread - you would see that I am definitely not making excuses for this guy. Foley's behavior is disgraceful on many levels. And so is the behavior of the Republican Party leadership regarding this issue.
I am simply pointing out the randomness in which several posters here label something as morally reprehensible.

Foley's conduct disturbs me very deeply. I have always looked at the Republican Party as sort of a “last hope” to save my country from a long slide into moral bankruptcy. I admit – I have allowed myself to be deceived.
I'm glad to hear this.

I wondered.
__________________

__________________
martha is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com