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Old 10-03-2006, 02:50 PM   #61
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Can't they run off to Boston and get married? San Francisco? If he can't get married - then he should have stayed in office and made it is #1 priority.

After all - who are we to deny this man and his 16 year old lover their right to do...whatever it is they want to do...
As misguided as your posts have been they were always at least respectful. But it seems your true colors are coming to the surface in the last week or so. You would have never suggested this if it was a man and a 16 year old girl!

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Old 10-03-2006, 02:58 PM   #62
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Gay marriage has nothing to do with this whole Foley situation or with situations like this in general.

His 16 year old "lover"? I assume that's supposed to be sarcastic, or something..It's really disrespectful and mocking of gay relationships to make a statement like that.
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Old 10-03-2006, 03:44 PM   #63
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


As misguided as your posts have been they were always at least respectful. But it seems your true colors are coming to the surface in the last week or so. You would have never suggested this if it was a man and a 16 year old girl!

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who believe that we can pretty much do whatever we want as long as the relationship is “consensual” and “between adults.” If this kid is in fact legally considered at the age of consent (I’m not sure he is, but I am reading that he is), then many of the posters here should have no problem with this relationship.

Personally – I think the whole episode is rather shameful and indicative of the moral black hole that has swallowed many of our leaders – both Democrat and Republican.
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:45 PM   #64
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Originally posted by AEON


I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who believe that we can pretty much do whatever we want as long as the relationship is “consensual” and “between adults.” If this kid is in fact legally considered at the age of consent (I’m not sure he is, but I am reading that he is), then many of the posters here should have no problem with this relationship.
Well maybe your point would have been understood if this truly was a consentual relationship. Age of consent does not make every relationship consentual.

Regardless your tone was uncalled for.
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Old 10-03-2006, 06:35 PM   #65
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Age of consent does not make every relationship consentual.
Maybe I missed something. I apologize for not following this story that closely. Did Foley rape this boy?
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Old 10-03-2006, 06:43 PM   #66
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I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who believe that we can pretty much do whatever we want as long as the relationship is “consensual” and “between adults.” If this kid is in fact legally considered at the age of consent (I’m not sure he is, but I am reading that he is), then many of the posters here should have no problem with this relationship.

Personally – I think the whole episode is rather shameful and indicative of the moral black hole that has swallowed many of our leaders – both Democrat and Republican.
I think there is a difference between what we may find inside of ourselves to be OK and what is legal within the boundaries of the law. Isn't that what laws are for, in a sense to provide boundaries, when boundaries have to be defined?

If it was my daughter I would be singing an old army cadence about what daddy hid behind the door marching my ass to put some rock salt into the ass of the person. But we are not talking about what is legal in the sense of what my morals lead me to believe.
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Old 10-03-2006, 07:15 PM   #67
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If it was my daughter I would be singing an old army cadence about what daddy hid behind the door marching my ass to put some rock salt into the ass of the person.
LOL - I would do the same exact thing!
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Old 10-03-2006, 07:24 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who believe that we can pretty much do whatever we want as long as the relationship is “consensual” and “between adults.” If this kid is in fact legally considered at the age of consent (I’m not sure he is, but I am reading that he is), then many of the posters here should have no problem with this relationship.


but this relationship wasn't either consensual -- a superior to a subordinate -- nor was it between adults.

so what point are you trying to make?

i'm with BVS's original post. i find this point and the one preceeding it to be offensive.

the point i think you are trying to make is that if we don't legally sanction only one permissable relationship between adults, then anything goes? adults will have sex with children? with goats?

if so, where does that end? if a relationship can be only one thing -- man and woman -- where do we stop with the rules and regulations? should it now be illegal to have sex outside of marriage? outside of the missionary position? should people only be allowed to marry others within 10 years of their own age? should Jews only marry Jews? should there be no interracial marriage?

this is the hallmark of the new Bush era: using government to force private lives to conform to a single acceptable standard to an extent heretofore unheard of.
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:01 PM   #69
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I like what this has to say. Can you imagine, saying they would be accused of homophobia/gay bashing? Yeah, that's stopped them so many times before . How insulting and laughable. I also heard on the news that Hastert said that it's all part of some sort of conspiracy on the part of Democrats, to take over the leadership. Now Foley's lawyer is saying he was abused by a priest. I feel much compassion for him about that, but that's no defense.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8639.html

"I believe it was Newt Gingrich who got the ball rolling on Sunday with this startling observation:

"Well, you could have second thoughts about it, but I think had [House GOP leaders] overly aggressively reacted to the initial round, they would have also been accused of gay bashing."
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:05 PM   #70
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Today In History

October 3, 1980 - US Representative Robert Bauman (R-MD) was arrested in Washington DC for soliciting sex from a male prostitute. Bauman was a supporter of the Moral Majority and a founding member of the American Conservative Union.
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:11 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who believe that we can pretty much do whatever we want as long as the relationship is “consensual” and “between adults.” If this kid is in fact legally considered at the age of consent (I’m not sure he is, but I am reading that he is), then many of the posters here should have no problem with this relationship.
Except it wasn't "consensual." Correct me if I'm wrong, but Foley's page was disgusted by all of it. And no, nothing physically sexual ever came from it. However, Foley's behavior is highly inappropriate, considering his position as a boss. If the page had been female and 35 years old, Foley would have gotten a nasty sexual harrassment lawsuit.

I'm not sure what the age of consent is in Washington, D.C., but, as I've pointed out, it doesn't matter. It's wrong no matter what, and it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. However, considering how openly homophobic the GOP is and what a big deal the GOP made out of consensual sex acts between Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, it's no wonder the media is having a field day with this. It's always fun to expose a hypocrite.

As for the rest of your homophobic tripe, I have come to expect better than that out of FYM.

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Old 10-03-2006, 08:22 PM   #72
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Originally posted by melon


Except it wasn't "consensual." Correct me if I'm wrong, but Foley's page was disgusted by all of it. And no, nothing physically sexual ever came from it. However, Foley's behavior is highly inappropriate, considering his position as a boss. If the page had been female and 35 years old, Foley would have gotten a nasty sexual harrassment lawsuit.

I'm not sure what the age of consent is in Washington, D.C., but, as I've pointed out, it doesn't matter. It's wrong no matter what, and it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. However, considering how openly homophobic the GOP is and what a big deal the GOP made out of consensual sex acts between Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, it's no wonder the media is having a field day with this. It's always fun to expose a hypocrite.

As for the rest of your homophobic tripe, I have come to expect better than that out of FYM.

Melon
Well - I definitely won't put myself in a position of defending this man.

I know why I think his conduct is wrong. I was just curious why others think it is wrong. From where are they deriving their moral reasoning?
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:27 PM   #73
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Quote:
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From where are they deriving their moral reasoning?
Haven't you been reading their posts?
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:32 PM   #74
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I know why I think his conduct is wrong. I was just curious why others think it is wrong. From where are they deriving their moral reasoning?
Age of consent laws are one factor. And looking at Washington, D.C.'s age of consent laws, I see that it is 16. As such, you cannot call Foley's actions "pedophilia" (although, even in antiquity, it would have been considered "pederasty," which was reserved for attractions to older teens), and, indeed, had he and his page had a truly consensual relationship, we would not be having this discussion.

As I see it, however, there's two main factors regarding this uproar:

1) GOP hypocrisy. If Hastert et al. looked the other way to protect an incumbent legislator, it is blatant hypocrisy, considering how they have run and won elections based on deep homophobia.

2) Sexual harrassment. The page, clearly, was not liking his advances, and it is quite inappropriate for a boss of any kind to be having communications of that kind with an employee, no matter what age, gender, or sexual orientation he or she is.

I don't find the "moral reasoning" behind this issue to be all that difficult, because it is not as if Foley's actions are without precedent.

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Old 10-03-2006, 08:34 PM   #75
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Originally posted by martha


Haven't you been reading their posts?
Sorry. Allow me to clarify.

What is the source document, philosophy, theology, culture...etc, that people here are using to say "this is right" and "this is wrong."
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