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Old 10-02-2006, 11:30 AM   #46
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Originally posted by deep
I am and have been a registered Republican for approx. 30 years, now.

and this bunch is the worst group of worthless louts I have ever seen.
The Pope is much closer to being a Protestant

than you are calling yourself a Republican.
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:52 AM   #47
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Foley is a pitiful man. and this isn't about pedophilia. this is about pederasty -- ever seen Penthouse's "Barely Legal"? and would Britney have ever had a career if not for the pederastic yearnings of heterosexual men? -- and we are talking about a 16 or 17 year old, not an 8 year old. gross and creepy, absolutely. but not in the same ballpark as going after a prepubescent child. and i believe, but am not certain, that the age of consent in the District is 16.

and, on another level, a bit of a double-standard. in many states, the age of consent is different for heterosexuals than it is for homosexuals. 16 year old heteros can have sex, 16 year old homos cant. but on a political level, it's simply much more titlating and salacious because it was a boy, not a girl, and this might be a situation where the grotesque homophobia that has shaped republican domestic policy since 2002 might come back to bit them in the collective ass since they've basically campaigned on the contention that heterosexuality is always, always better than homosexuality, and that homosexuality is something that must be destroyed.

so now, the real issue, is the lengths that the Republican Party might have gone in order to cover this up to make sure that Foley, who was winning in the polls, retained his seat. THAT is the real story, and that's what's going to have political reverberations. did Republican leaders avert their gaze and let him continue for nearly a year because nothing, but NOTHING, is more important than holding onto a congressional seat?

on one level, i do feel for him. everyone who's gay in DC knew about the Foley rumors (amongst others). the closet is a horrible place, one where men act in implusive and pathological ways that, while inexcusable, arise from a series of circumstance that i have felt act upon me, so i'm not as harsh with my condemnation as i might be in another context. i am not at all excusing Foley's actions, and i hope he suffers whatever legal consequences might arise, and i hope the Republicans suffer for the alleged cover-up of his behavior.

but there's a reason gay men trapped in homophobic institutions (like the GOP) behave in terrbly self-destructive ways, so i hope Foley gets the help he needs, and whatever punishments he deserves.
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Old 10-02-2006, 05:34 PM   #48
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I think there's a distinct difference between looking at a magazine and/or Britney Spears and whatever a person does with that..and actually involving a human being and having direct communication with a human being-and one who you are in a position of authority over. I don't differentiate between an 8 year old and a 16 year old. A 52 year old (or any adult of any substantial age difference) having that sort of contact with a 16 year old is not appropriate and shouldn't be legal, period in my eyes. It isn't legal, it violates federal law.

I feel complete sympathy for what being a closeted gay person must be like (as limited as that is given I can't directly experience it), but once you involve other people in that, especially 16 year olds, it just takes it to a whole different level. You are not just hurting/potentially hurting yourself anymore.

I am not saying he's a pedophile, and I abhor that gay man/pedophile stereotype. Gay, straight, whatever-that is irrelevant to how wrong it is. It's all equally wrong.
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Old 10-02-2006, 05:47 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I think there's a distinct difference between looking at a magazine and/or Britney Spears and whatever a person does with that..and actually involving a human being and having direct communication with a human being-and one who you are in a position of authority over. I don't differentiate between an 8 year old and a 16 year old. A 52 year old (or any adult of any substantial age difference) having that sort of contact with a 16 year old is not appropriate and shouldn't be legal, period in my eyes. It isn't legal, it violates federal law.


do you think there's a difference between looking at pictures of naked 8 year old girls and looking at pictures of naked 17 year old girls?

what about the age of consent? should it be 16 (as i think it is in DC and in many Western countries and US states) or should it be 18? should there be a difference in age of consent laws between gays and straights?

i suppose i do differentiate between an 8 year old and a 16 year old, insofar as one is pedophelia and the other is pederasty. you are absolutely right that a 52 year old shouldn't have anything to do with a 16 year old, and all of the looking-not-acting and authority issues, absolutely.

i'm just making a distinction and also drawing a parallel to the fact that much of popular culture revolves around the sexualization of mid-to-older teenaged girls, so i don't see why we should somehow think it's worse when an older gay man is interested in a teenaged boy than when an older straight man is interested in a teenaged girl. both are equally wrong, yet both don't, for me, rise to the level of a 52 year old man preying upon an 8 year old.

as for the stereotype ... well, as everyone on FYM knows, absolutely nothing makes me angrier, so i'm just trying to head off any discussion on that before it even starts.

and, for the record, this gay man is far more interested in muscled Mr. Clean types than, say, an Aaron Carter look alike.
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Old 10-02-2006, 06:31 PM   #50
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Why are you all so outraged?

Tony Snow says these were just "some naughty e-mails."
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Old 10-02-2006, 06:43 PM   #51
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Originally posted by anitram
Why are you all so outraged?

Tony Snow says these were just "some naughty e-mails."


i think Hastert should resign.

but i'm not outraged.

i just think it's sad.
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:18 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Why are you all so outraged?

Tony Snow says these were just "some naughty e-mails."







...and, THANK YOU Irvine. I stopped myself from posting this early (and now I am outraged because what someone else has made of it) - but I think your earlier post about "the closet", the GOP and D.C. was by far one of the greatest posts I have ever read in FYM. Thank you.


This story intrigues me on many levels. I am interested to see how the GOP reacts moving forward. I even listened to Rush today to listen to see how he would spin this.

I need to find better ways to spend my day off.
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:09 PM   #53
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*shudder*

I just read the IM conversation between foley and the page.



I'm absolutely disgusted. I seriously feel sick to my stomach, that man needs help, I'm afraid it goes deeper than alcoholism.
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:21 AM   #54
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i hope Hastert goes down if for no other reason than i'd relish the irony that of all the issues that this Congress deserves rebuking on -- the war, the grotesque spending, the pettiness -- what they might most be held accountable for is the protecting of a creepy sexual predator. after all, if they win election by getting bigots to the polls with laws that promise to stop boys from kissing each other, it only seems fitting that the protection of someone who kisses boys might bring down Speaker Hastert and possibly swing control of both Houses to the Democrats.
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:56 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i think Hastert should resign.

but i'm not outraged.

i just think it's sad.
He should have just married the kid real quick so the Democrats would leave him alone. Heck - he'd be the new Rosie O'Donnell!
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:07 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


He should have just married the kid real quick so the Democrats would leave him alone. Heck - he'd be the new Rosie O'Donnell!




what are you talking about?

(gays can't get married)
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:12 AM   #57
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Originally posted by Irvine511






what are you talking about?

(gays can't get married)
Can't they run off to Boston and get married? San Francisco? If he can't get married - then he should have stayed in office and made it is #1 priority.

After all - who are we to deny this man and his 16 year old lover their right to do...whatever it is they want to do...
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:19 AM   #58
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Originally posted by AEON


Can't they run off to Boston and get married? San Francisco? If he can't get married - then he should have stayed in office and made it is #1 priority.

After all - who are we to deny this man and his 16 year old lover their right to do...whatever it is they want to do...


oh, i get it now.

anyway, no, neither of them are residents of Massachusetts, so i don't think getting married is an option. there are wonderful laws in the District regarding domestic partnerships, but those are available to, you know, consenting adults, not powerful men who prey upon younger, underaged subordinates.

and Foley's hypocrisy on Marriage Equality is getting him burned in effigy on the gay sites, but that's another story.

and the "right to do ... whatever it is they want to do" is a right that is accorded to adults, not to minors, and certainly not to adults who want to exploit minors.

though, he could have been like my college writing professor ... he had a student lover and then ran off and married her after graduation.

of course, these are things that straight people get to do, after all, they have the "right to do ... whatever it is they want to do."
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:22 AM   #59
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You can debate the "what should the age of consent" issue all you want,

You can debate the "should we treat adults who proposition/molest 16-year-olds any different than adults who proposition/molest 8-year olds" issue all you want.

You can debate the age of consent for homosexuals vs. heterosexuals issue all you want.

The heart of the matter is that the law is the law. Foley apparently propositioned someone under the age of consent. He broke the law as it is currently written and is on the books and therefore should be punished. Period. End of sentence.

The law is what it is right now. You can debate changing those laws, but it won’t change the fact that at the time the "propositioning" took place, the act was illegal.
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Old 10-03-2006, 12:02 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i hope Hastert goes down if for no other reason .
He really should be investigated

wasn't he a boys wrestling coach.

No wonder he gave Foley so much leeway.
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