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Old 10-08-2006, 06:01 PM   #226
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Originally posted by Irvine511




you are really s t r e t c h i n g here. where's the hypocrisy?

all politicians who come from any sort of sophistocated, cosmopolitan American city aren't going to win elections without the support of the BGLT community -- Rudy Guiliani went to gay pride parades in NYC. if NAMBLA were present at a parade in NYC, would you say the same thing about Rudy?

chances are, Pelosi had no idea they were there, and again, i'll point back to the NORMAL example -- NAMBLA has a right to exist, even though they have no right whatsoever to practice what it is they wish to make legal. this is why the ACLU has defended NAMBLA in the past. it is a free speech issue, no matter how repulsive you and i might find that speech.
Well, I am not arguing about NAMBLA's right to exist. However - having that group in the parade is a sign of endorsement, in my opinion. If Bush joined a Fourth of July parade and the KKK just happened to follow along - you can imagine there would be quite an uproar (and there should be).

I do not take issue with a politician in a Gay Rights parade. I take issue with those that would allow NAMBLA in their parade. And I take issue with politicians that take a tough stance on a moral dilemma when it suits their needs, even though nothing about their past indicates they really do support their newfound position.

It sounds to me that you are equally disgusted by NAMBLA - would you really want them marching next to you in a Gay Rights parade? If pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality - then why in the heck allow them to be in the parade in the first place?
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:32 PM   #227
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first, i have been to several gay pride parades (in SF, DC, and Brussels) and have never seen NAMBLA marching. in fact, i'm only aware of their existence through, first, South Park, and then through their defense by the ACLU.

let me ask you this: if you are pro-life, is it right to implicate you whenever someone shoots a doctor and bombs a clinic in the name of Christ? is a pro-life politician by default in support of such actions? because you're saying that Pelosi, by supporting gay rights, is by default in support of each and every group who sees themselves as belonging under the broad, broad banner of gay rights, even those which 99.99% of gay people find reprehensible, just as 99.99% of christians find bombing a clinic and shooting a doctor reprehensible.
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:38 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
first, i have been to several gay pride parades (in SF, DC, and Brussels) and have never seen NAMBLA marching. in fact, i'm only aware of their existence through, first, South Park, and then through their defense by the ACLU.

let me ask you this: if you are pro-life, is it right to implicate you whenever someone shoots a doctor and bombs a clinic in the name of Christ? is a pro-life politician by default in support of such actions? because you're saying that Pelosi, by supporting gay rights, is by default in support of each and every group who sees themselves as belonging under the broad, broad banner of gay rights, even those which 99.99% of gay people find reprehensible, just as 99.99% of christians find bombing a clinic and shooting a doctor reprehensible.
If I were a senator or a representative and I went to a Christian Family Day parade (just making that up) - and if I found out that of all the various Christian groups marching - one was a militant abortion clinic bombing group - then I would either refuse to march or only march on the condition they would not also march.
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:04 PM   #229
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Originally posted by AEON


If I were a senator or a representative and I went to a Christian Family Day parade (just making that up) - and if I found out that of all the various Christian groups marching - one was a militant abortion clinic bombing group - then I would either refuse to march or only march on the condition they would not also march.
Many GOP politicians have associations or involvements with Operation Rescue and it's members.
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:18 PM   #230
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Can anyone provide a news story documenting NAMBLA's participation in whichever parade it was that Pelosi also marched in? Everything I've been able to find seems to derive from the same current American Spectator article, which reports on her having marched in the same San Francisco LGBT Pride Parade (in 2001) as Harry Hay, a gay rights pioneer (now dead, then 89; politically active from the 50s through to the early 80s) who never himself belonged to NAMBLA but did oppose their exclusion from the LGBT movement, which so far as I can tell dates to the mid-80s (they emerged as a splinter faction post-Stonewall, and were never part of the mainstream Gay Liberation movement). I've found nothing about NAMBLA as an organization having participated in this 2001 parade, nor in any other since the mid-80s. But perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places.
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:34 PM   #231
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facts are a funny thing
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Old 10-08-2006, 10:22 PM   #232
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I remember seeing people with off the wall stuff on their signs, like "Kill the Klan" at demonstrations I went to during the Reagan years when I was protesting their Latin American policies. I disapproved of these signs, but I did demonstrate with them. I didn't associate with the ultraleft movement at all, but they showed up at some of our demonstrations and we let them demonstrate. I remember some dumbass group held up the statue of Vulcan here in Birmingham, claiming that the statue symbolized oppression. I wasn't anywhere near that particular demonstration. It was too stupid for words.
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:35 PM   #233
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Originally posted by yolland
Can anyone provide a news story documenting NAMBLA's participation in whichever parade it was that Pelosi also marched in? Everything I've been able to find seems to derive from the same current American Spectator article, which reports on her having marched in the same San Francisco LGBT Pride Parade (in 2001) as Harry Hay, a gay rights pioneer (now dead, then 89; politically active from the 50s through to the early 80s) who never himself belonged to NAMBLA but did oppose their exclusion from the LGBT movement, which so far as I can tell dates to the mid-80s (they emerged as a splinter faction post-Stonewall, and were never part of the mainstream Gay Liberation movement). I've found nothing about NAMBLA as an organization having participated in this 2001 parade, nor in any other since the mid-80s. But perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places.


which would probably explain why i've never heard of NAMBLA at a gay pride parade.

so ... let's get back to discussing what really matters: how a creepy old man sexually harassed some high school boys and whether or not the Republicans covered his ass because he was a very popular congressman with a very secure seat in a closely divided House.

let's ignore the civil war in Iraq, and nuclear tests in North Korea.



it's all so depressing, right now. the world.
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:42 PM   #234
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Originally posted by Irvine511


so ... let's get back to discussing what really matters: how a creepy old man sexually harassed some high school boys and whether or not the Republicans covered his ass because he was a very popular congressman with a very secure seat in a closely divided House.
Well, just breaking from The Washington Post:

Quote:
A Republican congressman knew of disgraced former representative Mark Foley's inappropriate Internet exchanges as far back as 2000 and personally confronted Foley about his communications.

A spokeswoman for Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.) confirmed yesterday that a former page showed the congressman Internet messages that had made the youth feel uncomfortable with the direction Foley (R-Fla.) was taking their e-mail relationship. Last week, when the Foley matter erupted, a Kolbe staff member suggested to the former page that he take the matter to the clerk of the House, Karen Haas, said Kolbe's press secretary, Korenna Cline.

The revelation pushes back by at least five years the date when a member of Congress has acknowledged learning of Foley's behavior with former pages.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:14 AM   #235
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Well, looks like Pat Buchanan's been making these claims too, and not just about Pelosi.

Scarborough Country, MSNBC, Oct. 5
Quote:
BUCHANAN: Let me say this, Joe. I mean, look, we are now hearing that this flamer, Mr. Foley, was going after kids as early as 19 -- I mean, 20 -- I mean, 1998. I mean, you knew Foley. Did you know he was this kind of flamer who was after pages?
....................
Ms. Pelosi has marched in gay pride parades with the North America Man-Boy Love Association, NAMBLA, which—who are pedophiles who are trying to get the laws repealed for sex between men and boys! If she's been marching with pedophiles, is she credible standing up there saying, I‘m shocked, shocked that some Republican is after 17-year-old pages?
.....................
Let me tell you something. Two national figures, Rudy Giuliani, Hillary Rodham Clinton marched in gay pride parades in New York in which I believe that NAMBLA floats were moved right along, and these are child predators who are arguing for getting rid of--

SCARBOROUGH: All right, but Pat --

BUCHANAN: -- laws between men and boys --

SCARBOROUGH: -- that will not --

BUCHANAN: They're marching with that go into --

[crosstalk]
Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, CNN, Oct. 8
Quote:
BUCHANAN: Now, Ms. Pelosi, it's my understanding, has marched in gay pride parades in which they've had floats of the North American Man-Boy Love Association, which wants to eliminate all age of consent laws. And it's an outrageous group, in my judgment, a criminal group almost in what it recommends. But I've not seen the Democrats come down and condemn them, and I believe Senator Clinton has marched in a parade with a similar float.
Unfortunately, neither presenter asked Buchanan for his sources on this, and I still haven't found any; there are several blogs and message boards now repeating his Hillary claim (also without providing documentation), and as mentioned concerning the Pelosi claim, there's also the American Spectator article, though it hardly supports Buchanan's version. I did find a few older blogs alleging Giuliani had "marched with NAMBLA," though the only thing remotely resembling documentation I could find for that was a 2001 "Concerned Women for America" brief on Giuliani's "pro-homosexual" exploits which passingly asserted that "[i]n 1992, during his first run for mayor, Giuliani took part in a homosexual 'pride' parade that included a contingent of pedophile activists marching behind a banner for NAMBLA" (no sources provided). NAMBLA isn't mentioned, however, in NYT's list of registered participants for that year's Gay Pride parade (June 28 edition).

But I'd appreciate it if someone could prove me wrong, because if I'm not than it seems to me this is jaw-droppingly baseless slander.

And I must say, some of the filth I had to read through trying to track down leads on this stuff made me sick to my stomach. And I'm not talking about NAMBLA.
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:58 AM   #236
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Yolland,

It is the Pat Buchanan argument that has been repeated on the news and picked up by editorialists and then announced on talk radio. They all speak of this as if it is fact. That was what prompted my posting.
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Old 10-09-2006, 09:27 AM   #237
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It's always a good idea to believe everything Pat Buchanan says. That practice will never get you in over your head.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:02 PM   #238
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Go to Google News. There must be a great Left Wing conspiracy to suppress this story. Buchannan is apparently the ONLY source to this shite.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:21 PM   #239
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Buchannan?! Yes, that's always my first source for the truth.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:36 PM   #240
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anyway ... something much more important than baseless NAMBLA sightings:

[q]Report: Rep. Confronted Foley in 2000
Rep. Jim Kolbe of Arizona Reportedly Confronted Foley on Web Chats With Pages As Early As 2000

Talk Politics: Join the Debate
By HOPE YEN

WASHINGTON Oct 8, 2006 (AP)— Rep. Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz., confronted then-Rep. Mark Foley about his Internet communications with teenagers as early as 2000, according to a newspaper report.

The Washington Post reported Sunday night that a former page showed Kolbe some Internet messages from Foley that had made the page uncomfortable. Kolbe's press secretary, Korenna Cline, told the Post that a Kolbe staff member advised the page last week to discuss the matter with the clerk of the House.

Cline denied the messages were sexually explicit, telling the Post only that they had made the former page uncomfortable. She said "corrective action" was taken, although she did not know whether that went beyond Kolbe's confrontation with Foley.

Rank-and-file Republicans, meanwhile, sought to mount a public defense of Speaker Dennis Hastert over the scandal, which is threatening their congressional control one month before the elections.

But a House GOP leader under fire for his handling of the scandal involving former Rep. Mark Foley canceled a national broadcast appearance and one Republican lawmaker said those who participated in a cover-up would have to resign.

"Anybody that hindered this in any kind of way, tried to step in the way of hiding this, covering it up, is going to have to step down. Whoever that is," said Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va.

The House ethics committee is investigating the matter. If it finds evidence of a cover-up, the punishment could range from a mild rebuke in a committee report to a House vote of censure or expulsion.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2543551

[/q]
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