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Old 10-07-2006, 03:43 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
so if a MOD wants to change the title of the thread to:

Congressman Foley resigns, what happened?

I am good with that.


It might be a more fitting title.
Done.
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Old 10-07-2006, 03:52 PM   #212
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Originally posted by AEON
The funny thing is listening to the Democrats take the moral high ground. One day they are marching in a NAMBLA parade - the next day they are calling for the head of anyone involved with knowing about naughty e-mails. Whatever gets the votes...

Both parties are really doing their best to make me lose faith in their ability to govern this great nation.
Stop posting. Come back when you know the facts.

Your posts are becoming more and more troll like.
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Old 10-07-2006, 03:56 PM   #213
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Allright guys, enough. I agree that AEON's post was unacceptable, but the point doesn't need to be reiterated over and over.
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Old 10-07-2006, 04:10 PM   #214
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Sorry Yolland, I'm just getting tired of some of the outright hatred being spewed in here lately.
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Old 10-07-2006, 05:58 PM   #215
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
and lastly, i dont like the 'tone' of his whole statement. I think it is derogatory to gay people. Suddenly the only reason he did any of this is because he was molested and coked up on pills and alcohol. and hes seeing a mental health person, cause obviously any man who wants to sleep with a 16 yr old or younger man is completely FUCKED and perhaps not just...uhm GAY? It's like saying that the only reason people are gay is because they were molested, or their mum dressed them like girls or some boys touched their penis or some bullshit rather then that its just a natural occurance. Or maybe im reading to much into it.
I haven't really posted in this thread cos really I'm just disgusted by Foley and every person who knew about it, regardless of politics. and I have nothing really to contribute.

but I actually was thinking about that the other day and had the same thought. even though it isn't exactly the main point of this story, that subtle implication does seem to be a common theme whenever any story like this comes out. I really hate the message that sends...
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Old 10-07-2006, 06:41 PM   #216
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I have no issue with Mark Foley being gay. I have an issue with him hitting on underage pages.
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Old 10-08-2006, 12:07 AM   #217
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just to clarify, i have never once said that his behavior was acceptable or even understandable because he was a powerful member of a party that has centered most of it's domestic policy around homophobia and aligned itself with virulently anti-gay organizations like Focus on the Family or the Family Research Council. what i am saying is that men in "the closet" (and women, too, but we're talking about men here) often behave in oddly self-destructive, pathological ways, such as chasing after 17 year old Congressional pages, which is every bit as numbskull-stupid as letting an intern perform oral sex on you in the Oval Office. it's downright stupid, and perhaps purposefully self-destructive, and in this case (as opposed to Monica) quite possibly criminal, but this is the type of behavior engendered by the closet. of course, most men in the closet do not behave this way; of course every man in the closet (and out) is responsible for his actions, and should have to pay the consequences of his actions. however, just as we talk about the "root causes" of things like terrorism that are never meant as excuses for terrorism, so can we talk about the psychological torment of the closet and how it can manifest in stupid, stupid behavior.

and, yes, i've said that as a gay man, i can rather viscerally understand what must have been Foley's inner torment, but i cannot and have not and will not excuse his actual actions.

i would also like to point out that it is far easier to say to someone, "oh, silly, just come out and deal with it!" than it is to actually be gay and have to deal with the consequences of coming out. there are always consequences -- always. would the GOP support an openly gay congressman? or would the homophobic elements i mentioned earlier have used their influence within the party (James Dobson gets consulted by the White House as to the appropriateness and Christian credentials of SCOTUS nominees, for Pete's sake) to get him axed?

while i agree, broadly, with virtually everything you're saying, i think that Foley's reality is sadly, and now tragically since he's now preyed upon teenagers and implicated them in his downward spiral, far more complicated and troubled than that.
I do agree that i obviously don't know what its like to be gay, and the implications of what 'coming out' entails emotionally to a gay person, but my whole point is that, if you ARE gay, people know (like you said ppl knew about this in washington before it hit the news right?) or people suspect. I know it would be hell scary to publicly come out and suddenly you are branded 'the gay politician' but if you ARE gay, how farking stupid do you have to be to try hit on a 17 yr old subordinate?
I also do see a self destructive angle to this as well, but yet again don't think it matters one jot to what happened. This is a grown middle aged full fuctioning man, if he can't take responsibilty fully for his actions then who can?

*edit* just to say, i dont think you are defending him or not thinking he was a tool, i was just going back along the lines of my first point about responsibility
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Old 10-08-2006, 03:08 AM   #218
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what's so funny about-
peace
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understanding Pink Elephants?

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Old 10-08-2006, 10:39 AM   #219
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Originally posted by yolland
Allright guys, enough. I agree that AEON's post was unacceptable, but the point doesn't need to be reiterated over and over.
I do apologize that my post caused such a firestorm. I simply wanted to point out that Pelosi is just being opportunistic.
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Old 10-08-2006, 10:48 AM   #220
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Originally posted by AEON


I do apologize that my post caused such a firestorm. I simply wanted to point out that Pelosi is just being opportunistic.


sounds like the Pope apologizing for the firestorm his words started ... not for the words themselves.
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:15 AM   #221
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sounds like the Pope apologizing for the firestorm his words started ... not for the words themselves.
Well, the fact is that Pelosi did march in a parade where NAMBLA was also marching. Does this mean she directly endorses them? No. However, if she was as "sickened" by pedophilia as she now claims to be - then I would think she would refuse to march until they were uninvited.

That was the point I was trying to make – that she is a hypocrite. I could have articulated this better.
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:33 PM   #222
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From Time Magazine.

Quote:
Every revolution begins with the power of an idea and ends when clinging to power is the only idea left.

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Old 10-08-2006, 01:38 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Well, the fact is that Pelosi did march in a parade where NAMBLA was also marching. Does this mean she directly endorses them? No. However, if she was as "sickened" by pedophilia as she now claims to be - then I would think she would refuse to march until they were uninvited.

That was the point I was trying to make – that she is a hypocrite. I could have articulated this better.


you are really s t r e t c h i n g here. where's the hypocrisy?

all politicians who come from any sort of sophistocated, cosmopolitan American city aren't going to win elections without the support of the BGLT community -- Rudy Guiliani went to gay pride parades in NYC. if NAMBLA were present at a parade in NYC, would you say the same thing about Rudy?

chances are, Pelosi had no idea they were there, and again, i'll point back to the NORMAL example -- NAMBLA has a right to exist, even though they have no right whatsoever to practice what it is they wish to make legal. this is why the ACLU has defended NAMBLA in the past. it is a free speech issue, no matter how repulsive you and i might find that speech.
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:43 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
I do apologize that my post caused such a firestorm. I simply wanted to point out that Pelosi is just being opportunistic.
We need a back-tracking smiley in here.

You're apologizing for the problems the post caused, not what you said in the post.
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Old 10-08-2006, 02:01 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

I do apologize that my post caused such a firestorm. I simply wanted to point out that Pelosi is just being opportunistic.


feel free to use my words

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


you are right

i did jump the gun on this
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

I simply wanted to point out that Pelosi is just being opportunistic.

opportunistic?

seems to be the word used by Conservatives, to describe anyone that justly citicizes a member of the GOP.

when I hear it

I consider it an admission,
"Oh yeah, we are corrupt, you don't have to tell everybody, do you?"
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