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Old 11-03-2004, 07:25 AM   #16
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You're right. I'd never label you any of the things you wrote here and everybody has the right to vote for whoever they want. As long as the elections are fair and that's where my doubts surface...
I think the system we have is as good a system as is out there. Its not perfect, but there are lots of people doing thier best to make this fair.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:26 AM   #17
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Originally posted by Dutch Partygirl
Uhuh, right... Voting forms getting lost in the mail by the thousands, voting machines being manufactured by a fanatic Republican, not being able to print the results on paper because the machines are broken and the results are lost (which means there can't be a recount) etc. I don't think you can call that a fair competition. By the way, I would've said this as well if Kerry would've won. It's strange to see that the country that wants to bring democracy to the world can't even organise normal elections themselves... I'm not saying that my country is all that (the Netherlands is not even close to being all that!), but at least we've got normal and fair elections.
No votes have been lost. We do very well for our size and diversity, thank you very much.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:27 AM   #18
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Bush won the popular vote by 3.5 million... he won ohio by 130,000+. even oliver stone couldn't pull a conspiracy out of his ass on this one.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:27 AM   #19
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So now we're going to have to listen to more whining for the next few years?
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:30 AM   #20
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I'm not saying it's just the Republicans that have any part in the voting process. The point is (and it doesn't matter if it affects Republican or Democratic voters, it shouldn't affect any voter at all) that there are doubts wether the elections were fair. Elections should be fair, doesn't matter who wins. None of the votes should get lost/mistreated wether they are Republican votes or Democratic votes. It's all over the media here that there were default voting machines, voting forms getting lost, not enough voting forms etc. That's a sad thing...
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:32 AM   #21
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Originally posted by Dutch Partygirl
I'm not saying it's just the Republicans that have any part in the voting process. The point is (and it doesn't matter if it affects Republican or Democratic voters, it shouldn't affect any voter at all) that there are doubts wether the elections were fair. Elections should be fair, doesn't matter who wins. None of the votes should get lost/mistreated wether they are Republican votes or Democratic votes. It's all over the media here that there were default voting machines, voting forms getting lost, not enough voting forms etc. That's a sad thing...
i think you should pay less attention to your media... if that was indeed a huge issue, be assured the american media & the kerry campaign would be all over it. they are not.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:32 AM   #22
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Originally posted by Dutch Partygirl
I'm not saying it's just the Republicans that have any part in the voting process. The point is (and it doesn't matter if it affects Republican or Democratic voters, it shouldn't affect any voter at all) that there are doubts wether the elections were fair. Elections should be fair, doesn't matter who wins. None of the votes should get lost/mistreated wether they are Republican votes or Democratic votes. It's all over the media here that there were default voting machines, voting forms getting lost, not enough voting forms etc. That's a sad thing...
No votes have been lost or mistreated. Everyone so far is pretty darn satisfied with that...thank goodness.

Hello, a minor glitch in some in Florida that was fixed, nothing lost. No complaints. I have heard of no form being lost. No complaints. Not enough voting forms? I believe there was enough...and if they ever worried about it in some states, well, that's a good thing...greater voter turn-out then even expected.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:33 AM   #23
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I'm sorry, I didn't know you couldn't discuss this kind of thing without having all sorts of things thrown at me. I guess it's difficult having a discussion, especially through the internet. I'll shut up now...
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:33 AM   #24
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I agree with Headache, in this environment, believe me, the media would be all over any problems.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:34 AM   #25
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Originally posted by U2Traveller
I agree with Headache, in this environment, believe me, the media would be all over any problems.
a discussion has two sides... make a point, and one would expect a counter point is only fair.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:34 AM   #26
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Originally posted by Dutch Partygirl
I'm sorry, I didn't know you couldn't discuss this kind of thing without having all sorts of things thrown at me. I guess it's difficult having a discussion, especially through the internet. I'll shut up now...
I think we discussed things. You just didn't like that we refuted your assumptions.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:34 AM   #27
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My last post wasn't aimed at U2Travellers last post. Hadn't seen that one yet...

But anyway, congratulations to George Bush. I'm back to work now...
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:36 AM   #28
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He's not attacking you Dutch, you don't have to go. All we're saying is that we need some proof or examples of why this election was unfair because so far everything looks clean from our (American) end. It's not enough to just say "it seems unfair....." and have people agree without any proof or solid examples.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:44 AM   #29
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I don't have a problem with a good discussion and I'll even admit when I'm wrong, but there were loads of one-liners going around and not a lot of arguments. Untill U2 Travellers post where he finally came up with some more substantial stuff. I don't have time to read the American papers as well, but I did have a look at the Dutch tv-channels this night and morning and there were several reports of what I described before. That's all I'm saying. And I don't expect people to agree with me. If it's not true, it's not true. But it is really strange that the media here is reporting it (and don't bring me any 'your media is on the side of John Kerry' - stuff, because that's not always true). Anyway, I really have to get back to work even though I love discussing stuff... I'm already waaaaaaay behind and I've got an interview in a couple of hours with an American band (The Killers, heard of them? They're brilliant!) that I have to get ready for... Sorry!
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:48 AM   #30
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Well, overall it was a fair election. I wanted Kerry to win but the popular vote difference is large enough that I am not going to complain about individual states. Ohio is the only question mark, but a difference of 135,000 or so is large enough that this does not look like a repeat of Florida in 2000. So congrats to Bush and all his supporters here.

PS - Don't try to argue with U2Traveller. She is unable to comprehend any viewpoint other than her own. She has proven that over and over again in other threads. Now, I can respect a Bush supporter like Headache, he seems to understand that other viewpoints exist.
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