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Old 07-31-2005, 05:35 AM   #1
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Communists/Fascists/Anarchists of the World Unite

Place the argument to the individual

For argument number one we have
Quote:
To end the threat of terrorism against the American people, we must know the true reason why we are so hated. Modern technology makes mass murder and terrorism so ridiculously easy that just about anyone can do it. It cannot be stopped by military might. In fact, even the brute force we are using in Afghanistan supposedly to wipe out terror -- already shows signs of whipping up enough world-wide hatred against America to give rise to a thousand new terrorists for every one terrorist we might kill....

Perhaps we should have enough courage to consider the possible reasons why so many might hate us. Only when we have all the facts, rather than cute little cliches like They were attacking freedom, can we decide the best way we can protect our people in the future.

The real reason we have suffered the terrorism of the WTC attack is shockingly simple.

Too many American politicians have treasonously betrayed the American people by blindly supporting the leading terrorist nation on earth: Israel.

The American mass media and the government cannot have it both ways. If they are motivated to attack Afghanistan for giving aid and comfort to terrorists, then some Palestinians naturally find motivation to attack America for giving aid and even military support to Israel, a nation that has committed unrelenting terrorism against them.
Coming up next is argument number two
Quote:
Like others in the region, [Bin Ladin] is also outraged by long-standing US support for Israel's brutal military occupation, now in its 35th year: Washington's decisive diplomatic, military, and economic intervention in support of the killings, the harsh and destructive siege over many years, the daily humiliation to which Palestinians are subjected, the expanding settlements designed to break the occupied territories into Bantustan-like cantons and take control of the resources, the gross violation of the Geneva Conventions, and other actions that are recognized as crimes throughout most of the world, apart from the US, which has prime responsibility for them.
In number three we have this offering
Quote:
I also wonder what the kill ratio is in Afghanistan. Perhaps 1 member of the al-Qaida network is killed for every 10 run-of-the-mill Afghan soldiers and civilians who are basically just trying to get through their own lives like the rest of us. Or maybe it's 1 terrorist for a 100 Afghanis. I suspect the real figure is more like a 1000 non-terrorists dead for the life of 1 genuine terrorist who might ever bother America.
And capping off the selection is number four
Quote:
The bottom line is this: Ordinary Afghan people, men and women and children who have never done anything wrong to anyone, are getting mangled and killed by American bombs. The innocents have spouses, parents and friends, and these spouses, parents and friends may quite naturally end up hating those who mangled and killed their loved ones.
And now for the contenders of the arguments

A: Noam Chomsky
B: Ted Rall
C: Howard Dean
D: David Duke
E: Lyndon LaRouche

So, match the quote number to the individual you believe would have argued that point, note that two of the quotes will come from the same individual.

How freaking weird is it the way that the far left and the far right have so much in common, bunch of wankers the lot of them.

Answer key below (highlight too read)
1D, 2A, 3D. 4B
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Old 07-31-2005, 06:00 AM   #2
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Look, I'm not biblical prophesy kind of nut job but....

What I find really amazing is this: Year after year, we are developing all of the right ingredients of what is expected to play out in the last days - a full on fight of Israel (and it's allies) against the rest of the world in a battlezone between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

I know it's far fetched... but dang it if stuff wasn't written 3000 years ago and the world is shaping right up. 2000-3000 years could/should have put a lot of distance between what was projected and what is now, and it's really weird how close it is.

And yes, the loathing for Israel was to clear on the first quote, and I guessed it right away.

And just FYI a_wanderer, I've never considered that guy part of my club.
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Old 07-31-2005, 06:03 AM   #3
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Yes he is quite the pariah among his side, pity that I can't say the same about the others.
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Old 07-31-2005, 06:10 AM   #4
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Somehow I don't see fascists and anarchists uniting.
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Old 07-31-2005, 07:09 AM   #5
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Nor do I know too many socialists who would unite with fascists. LOL

Interesting exercise, though. The ideologies may be wildly different (I have much more in common with socialists than fascists but am not either ) but if you get someone extreme enough on any side, the behavior becomes quite similar.
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Old 07-31-2005, 07:48 AM   #6
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Frankly, looking at the position of all these people, I don't know why you care enough to post their arguments, except to create an argument yourself. Those in power won't pay attention to them anyway.

Melon
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Look, I'm not biblical prophesy kind of nut job but....

What I find really amazing is this: Year after year, we are developing all of the right ingredients of what is expected to play out in the last days - a full on fight of Israel (and it's allies) against the rest of the world in a battlezone between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

I know it's far fetched... but dang it if stuff wasn't written 3000 years ago and the world is shaping right up. 2000-3000 years could/should have put a lot of distance between what was projected and what is now, and it's really weird how close it is.
Go through the last 2000 years, and you can find several events that could have been interpreted as "all the right ingredients."

1) Like the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, which not only destroyed the Temple, but killed an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 Jews and those who survived were enslaved and dispersed throughout the Empire, in keeping with Roman conquest tradition. The majority Sadducees were annihilated, but the minority Pharisees only survived, because the head Rabbi was out of town setting up a learning center in Tyre, with the prior permission of Roman authorities.

2) Or how about the Crusades? 300 some years of war in the Holy Land, of all places! The Crusaders conquer it for 100-200 years, then lose it all over again to the Muslims.

No. You know why everything "adds up" for the "end times"? Because we have made it a self-fulfilling prophesy. If it weren't for the West's Judeo-Christian heritage, we would probably have told the Jews to fuck off (just like we currently tell the Kurds) when they said that they wanted their own state back in 1947.

And if Israel never existed, for better or for worse, the Middle East would likely be less prone to fanaticism, but even that's a bit short sighted. Even without Israel, the Middle East would still be sitting on vast quantities of oil worthy of Western interference, and we'd still likely have overthrown all their "leftist" elected officials in the 1950s and given arms to their despots like Saddam Hussein. Or, in the case of the Iraq and Iran War, arms to both Iraq and Iran.

In other words, we've created just what we've wanted to see: a so-called "showdown" in the Middle East. But I do believe that God is smarter than that, and just like the Crusades and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, God will probably laugh at us yet again and keep postponing "the end" to when we least suspect it.

Melon
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:07 AM   #8
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Do you ever forsee Europe finally turning the blame for all of the terrorist activities on the existence of Israel, and telling the US that enough is enough, they are going to eject them, with full support of the Arab nations of course.

And perhaps US, UK are the only ones that support the continued existence of Israel, and bam, it all hits at once.

Say, 30-40 years from now?
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:12 AM   #9
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I think Europe probably wishes Israel would fully pull out of Gaza and the West Bank and live up to their original UN charter. And if violence still happened after that, I'd hope Europe would then put the blame squarely on the Palestinians.

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Old 07-31-2005, 12:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Frankly, looking at the position of all these people, I don't know why you care enough to post their arguments, except to create an argument yourself.
i think you hit the nail on the head there.
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Old 07-31-2005, 04:08 PM   #11
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It is simply a great illustration of Blairs law, whereby the furthur that you go to either extreme the most you have common ground.
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Old 07-31-2005, 05:09 PM   #12
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so only extremists see israel as a problem in the middle east? or only extremists consider the potential effects of "collateral damage" on a local populace? i mean i think it's pretty obvious to everyone that centrists and moderates have nothing in common - it's only those crazy "wankers" on the far left/right!

frankly, you'd be making a much better point if self-titled communists and fascists were walking hand-in-hand expounding the many positive features of corporatism, or anything a bit more ideologically relevant than israel. i guess it should come as no surprise that the contents of the thread are as equally ludicrous as its title.
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Old 07-31-2005, 05:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Do you ever forsee Europe finally turning the blame for all of the terrorist activities on the existence of Israel, and telling the US that enough is enough, they are going to eject them, with full support of the Arab nations of course.

And perhaps US, UK are the only ones that support the continued existence of Israel, and bam, it all hits at once.
The US would never go to war with Europe merely to save the Jews. As the child of two Holocaust survivors whose murdered families tried desperately to emigrate here, I got a nice bitter laugh out of that.

To be fair, neither can I imagine Europe joining forces with the Arab nations just because they're tired of feeling guilty by association with Israel's iron fist. That won't solve their assimilation problems and coming demographic crises, and they know it. Not to mention that al-Qaeda's reconquest wish list includes not only Palestine but also Andalucia, Portugal, Sicily, the Balkans...
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Old 07-31-2005, 06:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Frankly, looking at the position of all these people, I don't know why you care enough to post their arguments, except to create an argument yourself. Those in power won't pay attention to them anyway.

Melon
Well Said.

The two quickest paths to sidestepping authority and morality forever are to 1) be born a sociopath or 2) get elected president of the united states.

They really should give the President the ceremonial "key to the country" on Induction day LOL.
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Old 07-31-2005, 06:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by peacepandemic


Well Said.

The two quickest paths to sidestepping authority and morality forever are to 1) be born a sociopath or 2) get elected president of the united states.
i'm not so sure the latter is as quick as it is effective.
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