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Old 12-26-2001, 06:36 AM   #1
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communism

can someone please give me some basic info/facts, thanx

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Old 12-26-2001, 08:04 AM   #2
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The basic idea and aim of it is a great one but it would never work
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Old 12-26-2001, 08:37 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by UV2001:
The basic idea and aim of it is a great one but it would never work
Here is the definition of communism:

1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the U.S.S.R. b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively

I say it is NOT a great idea, because giving the government the power to control industry is a bad, bad thing.
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Old 12-26-2001, 09:02 AM   #4
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The governments having total power was SUPPOSED to be a temparary thing and then everyone have the same amount of power as everyone else so no one had more or less than anyone else. That is the theory behind it which sounds great but people would always find a way to get more power than others as people are greedy and as a result it would never work and it all turned out worse.
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Old 12-26-2001, 05:26 PM   #5
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Read Marx's "Manifesto of the Communist Party".

The USSR officially said they were Communists, but in reality they weren't. Stalin is not a Communist (but you could think so because he industrialized Russia [Communism only applies to industrialize countries]. China is not Communist at all (I really put it on the extreme right-wing, not the extreme left).

Communism is utopia (Utopia being something that you can aim for, but never will be able to achieve). It takes time to apply. Communism is the left position at its extreme. In theory it's really the 'perfect society' but in practice it's not valuable. I belive in a strong Government, but not a totalitarian one. Again I'll say names here, but I'm more into Keynes than Marx.

I have Communist friends and some other Communist people that I know and what strikes me is that, for a lot (not all of them, but a fecking lot), they don't "upgrade" their ideas, they don't change. "Religion is the opium of the people" was right in the I800s, but not in 2002 (at least not for the occidental world).

Personally, I'm a Social-Democrat, wich is I think more utopic than Communism. A conscious 'Socialist' system in a democratic way (socialism implies democracy, but a lot of people don't know that, so we have to invent more terms for them..... blaaassshh). I believe in an 'interventionist' (is that the word in english ? In french it's "interventioniste"), wich means things such as free Education (and of course a accessible one), free Health Care and now I'm interested in a 'Minimum Citizen Revenue'. I believe the Government should do more than simply give money to people who need some (by helping them finding a job until they have one). I'm for the Tobin Tax (wich take 0.I% on each transactions in the banks [banks being like Wall Street), but I'm clearly not for a 'everything belongs to the government'. Also, I'm for the protection of the Environment, and bla bla bla... the good-sense, what ?

But really, read about Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, Democracy, History... and make your own point.

Cheers to you and Merry Christmas (and a Happy New Year).

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Old 12-27-2001, 03:13 AM   #6
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it's as close as you can get for a perfect system, for imperfect people, so it doesn't work.
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Old 12-27-2001, 03:32 AM   #7
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All property is theft, Vyvyan!
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Old 12-27-2001, 03:57 AM   #8
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More people should read up on communism. Then perhaps we would not have the absurdity of any vaguely centre-left government being described as communist. Indeed, China is not communist, just deeply authoritarian.

I mean not too long ago someone on one of these boards was trying to suggest that the countries of western Europe were communist! That's like saying Tony Blair leads a labor government.

Still, makes you think. If communism is a hopelessly naive vision of utopia, what does that say about the opposite extreme (hint: not fascism)?
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Old 12-27-2001, 09:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Holy John:
Read Marx's "Manifesto of the Communist Party".
Novia-- I don't know how old you are, but you might want to start with George Orwell's 'Animal Farm'- it's a basic tale showing how the idealism of communist practice can't work in the circumstances of everyday life... it's not too long and would give you a good starting point, then you could move on to Holy John's recommendation. :-)
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Old 12-27-2001, 10:41 AM   #10
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The author of animal farm denied that his book was an example for communism, but it is a good book.
Btw, if you start to know about communism, you should also know about system theories.
Compare the model of David Easton to the model of Claus Offe - a very interesting model what happens when there is a profit - crisis in a capitalistic state.
And, finally, if you want to be up to date, read something about globalisation, and see how it negatively affects the so - called periphery.
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Old 12-28-2001, 01:04 AM   #11
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Hmm... I knew there had been an element of contraversy when the book was published over whether or not it was truly about communism; I can't say I remember the whole thing but I still either way, the theme is the same.
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Old 12-28-2001, 03:55 AM   #12
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I didn't know that there was controversy about that, I always assumed that it was about communism. Then again, it's been a while since I last read it.
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Old 12-29-2001, 03:38 AM   #13
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In general, there has in the past been an attempt in the US to suppress any kind of education about the system of communism. We talk about freedom of thought and speech, but anytime someone suspects that their inner-most beliefs might come into question, they are quick to suppress any such thinking. In school, we were in general taught taught that the difference between communism and democracy was that "communism took away the rights of the people" and democracy "allowed people to have freedom and liberty". They completely ignored any other aspects, and even what they told us mostly bordered on Nazi-style propaganda. All because of the fear that we might ask about communism, and question whether democracy was the best form of government.

Personally, I'm in the boat with Holy John. I consider myself a social democrat, and I believe that because the government in theory needs to please all citizens equally, it will work in the best interests of all citizens. I certainly think that interventionist policy can help people more than a strict "laissez-faire" policy as well.

HJ, shoot me an e-mail sometime.
zooversion@yahoo.com

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Old 12-29-2001, 11:26 AM   #14
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Simply put, communism is the best theory and the WORST practice. The idea of an equal society is nice, but it just won't happen. Humans will always envy and want what their neighbors have. We can't stop that by making everybody work for the same pay and seemingly have the same living conditions. We will only make the citizens more pissed off.

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[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited 12-29-2001).]
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Old 12-29-2001, 06:53 PM   #15
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Communism made sense for the time Karl Marx created it. Europe was entrenched in corrupt, repressive monarchies that used capitalism as means for control. Marx was also Jewish and, at this time, anti-Semitism was very much a reality, and encouraged by Christianity (not really killed until after WWII). Hence, communism--an anti-capitalist, anti-religious form of government, whereas the people governed themselves, was created.

Where Marx failed was that he believed that people would be happy all being the same. People are inevitably greedy and will always demand more than others. What I think should happen, though, is the idea of "socialist democracy," whereas certain vital, key industries are free from corporate greed--such as utilities, public transportation, and health care (basically turning into non-profits)--but that people are still free to compete in non-essential industries. That way, people are assured their most basic of needs and won't get poor, but can still appease that part of themselves that strive to "be something big."

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