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Old 10-26-2004, 04:52 PM   #31
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Originally posted by DaveC
Even you wily conservatives can't manage to talk away the disappearance of hundreds of tonnes of weapons due to gross incompetence... ahh it's a good day.
That UN should have gotten rid of those explosives years ago....


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Old 10-26-2004, 05:00 PM   #32
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Since none of us really know the true FACTS on this yet, I think it's all just speculation. What I do know is that the search, or lack thereof, would have been a tactical decision, not a strategic one. There are stories flying all over the place representing either viewpoint. Each has their own fact and fiction to support their view. What is inexcusable is presenting such a story without having all the facts right before an election. This is especially true of CBS's original programming schedule and certain anti-US forces within the UN. To say the government is hiding something because they haven't responded to a news story within 24 hours is rather petty. Maybe they are a little hesitant to present anything until ALL the facts are known. I'm sure after the initial failure of our intelligence services, this is especially true.

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Old 10-26-2004, 05:02 PM   #33
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I repeat.... there needs to be some sort of reform in the media... I don't know how, but the more I follow the news, the more that I'm disgusted with the media...
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Old 10-26-2004, 06:27 PM   #34
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Originally posted by DaveC
Even you wily conservatives can't manage to talk away the disappearance of hundreds of tonnes of weapons due to gross incompetence... ahh it's a good day.

There are over 600,000 tonnes of explosives in Iraq, regardless of how this situation with 300 tonnes turns out, its important to keep some perspective here. The US Military and coalition forces are currently accounting for and destroying large amounts of these stockpiles, but it would be foolish to presume that there would have been some way to secure all 600,000 tonnes of explosives within days of the invasion. The fact of the matter is that it will take years to clean up and account for all this stuff.
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Old 10-26-2004, 06:58 PM   #35
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Yes taken from a "wily conservative" website.
From one Army Reserve Captain Ian Dodgsen
whose job it is to think about logistics.

"If I were a guerilla "looter" and I was planning such an operation from a military standpoint, here's what the task would require:

-Each "looter" could haul comfortably about 25 pounds per trip to a truck. (of course after 12 hours that would require superhuman endurance)

-I'd allow 5 minutes per round trip to the truck

-Work day 12 hours

-assume security breaks down 1 week after war starts (that allows 2
weeks before the US troops arrive)

-each pickup truck can carry about 1/4 ton of explosives (I did a quick calculation based upon the dimensions and weight of a block of C-4 and the dimensions of an average small pickup) and it takes 15 minutes to either load or unload the truck.

-the secure hiding place for 380 tons of explosives is 30 minutes away.


-380 tons / [((12hrs/dayX60min/hr) / (5 min per load)) X (25 lbs per load) X 14 days] = 15 loaders X 2 = 30 loaders/unloaders

-30 loaders/unloaders times 200% for breaks, rest, inefficiency, etc. = 60 loaders and unloaders.

-380 tons / [(12hrs/day / 1 hr/round trip,load,unload) X (.25 tons per trip) X 14 days] = 10 trucks and drivers X 1.5 (contingency) = 15 trucks and drivers.

-4 trucks + 10-15 men to supply water, food and other logistical

Total = 19-20 trucks, 90 men working continuously for two weeks to "loot" facility.

Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steel doors and concrete of an ASP.

And all of this would have to be done in an area with numerous intel overflights that would be looking for exactly this kind of activity in the combat zone, and not get noticed at all. Like so much of what the New York Times, CBS, and the Kerry campaign feeds us ... it just doesn't add up.
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Old 10-26-2004, 07:04 PM   #36
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It's obviously also an administration that never admits a mistake, no matter how fictional.
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Old 10-27-2004, 02:16 AM   #37
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Now its straight from the horses mouth
US: No Explosives When GIs Arrived
(CBS/AP) The Pentagon said Monday that invading U.S. troops did not find explosives at an Iraqi site where hundreds of tons of bomb-making material were once stored.

The U.N.'s nuclear watchdog alerted the Security Council this week that the Iraqi interim government reports nearly 400 tons of powerful explosives were missing from the al-Qaqaa facility, 30 miles south of Baghdad, as a result of "theft and looting ... due to lack of security."

From the end of the 1991 Gulf War until the March 2003 U.S. invasion, the explosives had been under seal by the International Atomic Energy Agency because they could have been used to trigger nuclear weapons under Saddam's dormant bomb program.

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