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Old 09-08-2005, 09:48 AM   #76
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diamond, I'm just trying to be fair. I missed alot of news of the hurricane because I had my cable and power knocked out for five days. I didn't want to jump to any crazy uninformed conclusions. But reading the news and listening to what my parents are watching on TV news, I can't help but be pissed off. The relief effort is a mess. No, it's not all Bush's fault. I know about people dying, this stuff is happening within a day's drive of where I live, and this part of the country is commonly called "Hurricane Alley". I went through Hurricane Ivan last year, and it's tough not to feel these people's pain, and then to get upset at a careless statement from a famous person. I don't feel like I'm demonizing Barbara Bush. She's a decent human being who made a mistake. Don't we all make mistakes?
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Old 09-08-2005, 10:05 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
i think the bashing and blaming of the right is a feeble vast wing conspiracy weaker and mirroring the whole bush guard document/dan rather small penis syndrome a short while ago.

"im sorry" dan rather eventually said.

trouble is, most in fym who bash bush will never apologize.
they will never realize their folly until years later, hopefully, if they ever do.
and the saddest thing in their miserable mindset is that as they bashed, it served no purpose, and ppl perished.

db9


this is such a deluded, uninformed post that i don't know whether to laugh or cry.

still, it tells me much about why man-child Bush is president.
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Old 09-08-2005, 10:06 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




this is such a deluded, uninformed post that i don't know whether to laugh or cry.
I cried
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Old 09-08-2005, 10:12 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

this is such a deluded, uninformed post that i don't know whether to laugh or cry.


*passes Dr Teeth a tissue*
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:23 AM   #80
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A friend of mine has watched only Fox news coverage of Katrina out of curiosity to see what spin the right can put on this and reports that its criticism of the administration has been relentlessly scathing. Criticism is coming from every direction, as well it should.
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:42 AM   #81
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not even Robert Novak (NOVAK!!!) can agree with Diamond:

"Chertoff's miserable performance on the air [last Sunday on "Meet the Press"] reflected a fiasco at all levels of government. ''There'll be plenty of time,'' Chertoff told Russert, to ''do the after-action analysis.'' That bloodless dismissal made the human tragedy and physical mayhem on the Gulf Coast seem like a bureaucratic mistake. What Chertoff ''got down'' was the White House mantra, repeated endlessly, that the ''after-action analysis'' should not interfere with current recovery operations. It was similar to saying the Pearl Harbor attack should not have been investigated and nobody disciplined for failures until World War II was won. . . . Political deafness mixed with lawyerly evasion was shown on ''Meet the Press'' when Chertoff claimed the breaking of the New Orleans levees ''really caught everybody by surprise.'' Russert cited repeated forecasts of this disaster by the New Orleans Times-Picayune, but Chertoff insisted he did not say what he had just said."

http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak...t-novak08.html
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:50 AM   #82
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Don't you understand? Pearl Harbor was the responsibility of state and local officials.

Melon
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:54 AM   #83
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And how do local/state goverments get more responsibility while having federal funding constantly cut?
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:12 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
not even Robert Novak (NOVAK!!!) can agree with Diamond:

"Chertoff's miserable performance on the air [last Sunday on "Meet the Press"] reflected a fiasco at all levels of government. ''There'll be plenty of time,'' Chertoff told Russert, to ''do the after-action analysis.'' That bloodless dismissal made the human tragedy and physical mayhem on the Gulf Coast seem like a bureaucratic mistake. What Chertoff ''got down'' was the White House mantra, repeated endlessly, that the ''after-action analysis'' should not interfere with current recovery operations. It was similar to saying the Pearl Harbor attack should not have been investigated and nobody disciplined for failures until World War II was won. . . . Political deafness mixed with lawyerly evasion was shown on ''Meet the Press'' when Chertoff claimed the breaking of the New Orleans levees ''really caught everybody by surprise.'' Russert cited repeated forecasts of this disaster by the New Orleans Times-Picayune, but Chertoff insisted he did not say what he had just said."


http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak...t-novak08.html
Wow, when Novak's not buying it, they're in deep trouble . . .

edit: I never thought I'd see the day where I agree with Robert Novack, but there ya go.

Quote:
Rep. Christopher Shays of Connecticut is more liberal than nearly all his fellow Republicans, but he has tried to be a Bush loyalist. He is a member of the Homeland Security Committee and chairs the national security subcommittee of the Government Reform Committee. Consequently, it is noteworthy when he accuses the administration of ''a real sense of arrogance. Loyalty and never admitting a mistake matters more than the truth. It has a Nixon feel to me.''
What the??? Robert Novak wrote that?

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Old 09-08-2005, 02:31 PM   #85
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Many on Fox are slagging off Bush. Scarborough, Carlson, & even Maitlin. She called the spin ridiculous and harmful to the country.

It seem the last poll was a little hasty.

a funny.

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1020

Released: September 08, 2005
Bush Job Approval Hits 41%—All Time Low; Would Lose to Every Modern President; Public Rates All Levels of Government Poorly in Katrina Handling; Red Cross Rated Higher Than Federal Government, 69%-17% —New Zogby America Poll



President Bush’s job approval rating took a hit in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, dropping to a historic low of 41%, a new Zogby America poll reveals. The same survey found the nation’s forty-third president would lose election contests against all of his predecessors since Jimmy Carter.

The Zogby America survey of 1157 likely voters, conducted from September 6 through 7, 2005, has a margin of error of +/-2.9 percentage points.

The public rates the performance of all levels of government in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina negatively, with 36% giving the President passing marks on his handling of the crisis—slightly higher than the 32% who give government in general good marks for its handling of the storm that devastated New Orleans and much of the Gulf coast.

In another key finding, the Zogby America survey finds that 86% of likely voters assess the response of private charities favorably, and one charity, the American Red Cross, gets higher marks than the federal government, as well as state and local governments. In fact, four times as many respondents say the Red Cross did a better job than the federal government, with the charity being seen as more effective by 69% and the government’s response viewed more favorably by 17%. The Red Cross also gets better marks than Louisiana’s state and local governments, by a 72% to 10% margin.
...
Government At All Levels Criticized

Just one-in-three (32%) voters say that the government response to Hurricane Katrina was adequate, while two-thirds (66%) rate the response negatively.

Among those holding a negative view of the government response, President Bush bears the brunt of public criticism, with one-in-four (27%) voters saying he most deserves the blame for inadequate government response. Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown comes in next in overall criticism, with 22% blaming him. However, the combined total blaming Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco (15%) and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin (8%), the senior state and local officials, respectively, is slightly higher than those blaming Brown, with 23% placing the blame on the two Louisiana figures. Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, meanwhile, comes in at 8%, while 9% blame other government officials.

It is worth noting that among the one-in-three voters who have a favorable view of the government response, an overwhelming 40% credit the president, while 16% credit Brown, 12% credit Blanco, 6% credit Nagin, and 7% credit Chertoff.

Red Cross Did “Better Job” Reacting to Katrina

Respondents say the American Red Cross did a better job than either federal or state and local governments responding to Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.

The huge private charity is rated more favorably than the federal government by a 69% to 17% margin, and more favorably than Louisiana’s state and local governments by an even larger 72% to 10% margin.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:42 PM   #86
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When even people like Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council and syndicated columnist Michelle Malkin are discussing the government's failed response...
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Old 09-08-2005, 03:29 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Don't you understand? Pearl Harbor was the responsibility of state and local officials.

Melon
No, the way I hear it, it was Bushes fault.
Fuckin Bush.
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Old 09-08-2005, 03:41 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




this is such a deluded, uninformed post that i don't know whether to laugh or cry.

still, it tells me much about why man-child Bush is president.

Irvine, I respect you and your posts. You give a good arguments for your view's but in the end I think it all comes back to you don't like bush, never have and never will. So I will take your opinions with a grain of salt. When you bring up election year banter as part of your arguments, It just shows your true colors. You think Bush won due to misinformed voters now? Aren't we an elitist. I don't know if there are any true bipartisan's around anymore. Most are partisan's with an agenda. Sad stuff.
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Old 09-08-2005, 03:58 PM   #89
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Irvine, I respect you and your posts. You give a good arguments for your view's but in the end I think it all comes back to you don't like bush, never have and never will. So I will take your opinions with a grain of salt. When you bring up election year banter as part of your arguments, It just shows your true colors. You think Bush won due to misinformed voters now? Aren't we an elitist. I don't know if there are any true bipartisan's around anymore. Most are partisan's with an agenda. Sad stuff.

yes, it's all mindless Bush bashing. that's it. if that makes you feel better, go ahead and think so.

i'm not the least bit concerned if people think i'm an elitist.

i'm sorry, but when you take a look at the Republican Party platform during the 2004 election and you realize that their #1 argument for their re-election was, bluntly, "we will keep you safer," and then we are given a test in the form of a natural disaster with catastrophic results comparable to a terrorist attack and now THOUSANDS are dead because of ineptitude at the local, state, and especially federal level, than Mr. Bush has failed this crucial test of leadership and competence.

and you know what?

go check out the thread i started on right wingers who aren't towing the WH line.

anyone one of them -- from Robert Novak to Joe Scaroborough to Tucker Carlson to Andrew Sullivan to most of Fox News -- will tell you *exactly* the same thing i just did.

but, of course, they are just Bush bashers.
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Old 09-08-2005, 04:14 PM   #90
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but, of course, they are just Bush bashers. [/B][/QUOTE]

No, I actually take them more seriously than the 'Fuck Bush' crowd.

But they don't shoot themselves in the foot with obvious generic Democratic Slam's. That is what degrades your arguments. Man-child Bush? See what I mean?
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